The Elite Elephant Archer upgrade should be buffed

The Elephant Archer already isn’t a great unit, but unfortunately, its elite upgrade in particular is quite bad.

In order to pay for itself, you would need something like 40 elite elephant archers. Unfortunately, due to the high cost of elephant archers, getting that many will almost never happen.

It also costs 800 gold, an extremely expensive price for the lategame where it is likely to happen. This can be compared to other upgrades like the Elite Plumed Archer, which takes Food and Wood instead.

Overall, according to Spirit of the Law’s analysis, the Elite Elephant Archer upgrade is the lowest-value elite upgrade of any unique unit in the game. Given their general weakness even before accounting for this, I think they more than deserve some changes to this.

Probably the easiest way to fix the problem is to simply change the gold cost to wood, instead. At least that way you could potentially afford it in the lategame. It would also make sense to reduce the cost quite a bit.

Alternatively, you could buff the elite variant a bit to make it actually worth it. For example, give the elite version 0 cavalry archer armor, rather than -2 like it currently has. This would make it take slightly less damage from skirmishers, which are one of their primary weaknesses at the moment.

Or you could do both. Given their weak status, I don’t think it would break anything.

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I agree to any suggestion that buff the Indians elephant archers. But it was a surprise that you are talking about the E upgrade, so it seems you really use them or interested with them to talk about E upgrade. In general it is really rare to see someone go with elephant archers and mass them in castle to ask for E upgrade. In general I agree and I actually think the castle age elephant archer should have 5 range not 4. On the other hand I really wanted to ask you a question: what make you as Indians want to go with elephant archers?! I mean why? If you face xbows you have tanky light cav, Eskirms and even camels, if you face knights you have camels, and Indians have FU CA which they are very common to use with them. The thing is I really don’t see any case that make you use the elephant archer.

It is a meme UU similar as the WE from Persians and BE from Khmer. None of those civs really want to go for their UU; instead they have a very wide unit tech tree to compensate
The only thing that I would really like to see is the Battle Elephant in more games. RoR civs needs to add this unit as their core to their army, in the same way that meso civs do with Eagles

Well, EA is really nice. It can buy you a lot of time vs archer civs.
But in the lategama its a meme for sure, as it lacks the dps to be effective.

The problem with battle elephants is their cost and lack of mobility. It is really hard to make them a core or main army, battle elephants imo is just meat siege/shield units like rams just to support your army.

I dont know about you but I always see them on Lombardia and Hill Fort so - no

They are a counter unit… So they can be seen at any map.
They just soak a lot of arrowfire.

talking about the unit (not the upgrade): the only way elephant archers will be a good unit is if the elephants have 2 archers on top. noone wants to pay extra cost only for more HP for a range unit, especially for archers. the whole point of range units is being an offensive unit (thats why ppl grab fletching and bodkin first instead of armor, while for non range units armor is more important…). you pay idk how much food for x HP while having nearly the same offensive skills as a crossbow. it is just shlt

It’s not ■■■■, it actually fits a greeedy eco attempt of indians quite well.
Buying time is one of the best complements of being greedy.

But I also think it could be improved. I think it should be able to garrison vils to be more effective in its role.

IMO that’s actually the biggest problem; there are virtually no circumstances where you ever want more than maybe 10 of them.

They serve a great role as a combination of archer and ram. They can tank enemy archer fire amazingly well, and can tank most melee attacks much better than rams could hope to survive. They’re only especially weak against halbs, but halbs are also weak against them and archers in general, which is the unit EAs are meant to support, so practically you’ll only be taking damage from cavalry, which won’t do nearly as well.

But you only want about 10 at most, which makes the elite upgrade dramatically overpriced.

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The main problem with elephant archers is that monks counter them even harder than regular elephants.

The unit is absolute garbage at killing other elephant archers which means that you can distract or force heavy micro from a group of elephant archers for around 30s by only converting 1 out of every 10 elephants. Compare this with elite battle elephants which only take around 10s to die to 6 surrounding elephants. Similarly they’re basically convertible rams if used for that purpose. You don’t need more than 4 monks or so to dramatically increase the effectiveness of things like halb spam against camels and elephant archers.

The elite upgrade getting an extra attack (so 8 attack instead of 7) would go a long way to making the unit more viable. It reduces the vulnerability toward monks by giving them +50% damage against themselves, gives the unit 8 + 2 damage against spears (so they die in 1 less hit). Similarly against champions they will do 7 damage (so again take 1 less hit), and camels die in 2 less hits.

Even if devs have to reduce the HP or reduce the cavalry archer armor further it’d probably be a worthwhile tradeoff.

Neither of them are meme units, they are both incredibly strong units which though difficult to get up and running can easily win you a game.

One idea how to buff elephant archers ive seen was make them able to shoot while moving. so you could walk away from enemy units while still shooting them. that should greatly increase their micro potential and make them more viable.
It makes sense that regular archer units cant do that, but i dont see any reason, why the guy in the gondola should stop shooting while the elephant isnt standing perfectly still.

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In my views EA should be replaced by a new unit. EA is flawed at its design level as is the Indians civ.

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The best thing that they can do to buff the elephant archers is to give them more range, like 6 range as a basic range or 5 at least not 4! It weird how did they give them 4 range especially when we are talking about EA it like you see a moving tower, so it is pathetic to see a high and big unit like EA have only 4 range like the normal CA, especially that the EA is slow unit and die to pikes and monks ez and even mangonels.

Interesting idea, I think they can still have it like a normal unit in the archery range like some civs have battle elephants as a normal unit to their stables, so it is more like giving them 2 UUs.

Indians already have 2 UU’s i.e. EA and Imp Camel.

Then make it 3 why not? :stuck_out_tongue:

Delete Imperial Camels from the game instead.

Nah, no need to delete them, but just fix them so that they don’t suck again.