The frame delay of the cavalry archers and many problems need to fix about

Yeah i know, i wrote many topics about the cavalry archers and ofcourse from the title everyone know what am i talking about, yes the stupid frame delay for the CA is completely trash and it is the worst archer mounted unit in the game.
The Aramabi, the Kepchak, the Mangudai, the conquistador…they are all have frame delay better than the CA which is completely useless until you have the thumb ring or in late castle age.

I have talked about the CA problems many times before and most of my topics were about them because they really need to be fixed, buffed and improved their use ASAP.
They have many bad points, long creation time, stupid frame delay, high cost and and and…i don’t know but it is really looks like the devs can’t do anything about the Cavalry archers!!! It looks like they’re flustered and afraid of any change around it.
Most of the players didn’t use the Cavalry archers except in the imperial age after many upgrades or in the late castle age, which make this castle age unit completely useless in the early castle age.
All the players once they hit the castle, they will just go for knights or xbows even if they were playing with cavalry archers civ!!! Those problems BIG PROBLEMS about the cavalry archer need to be fixed ASAP for real.

So the CA in general and in my opinion need “3” things:

  1. Decrease the training time from 34s to 27s or 30s at least.
  2. Decrease the frame delay
  3. Decrease the ROF ( which means make them take less time to reload and shoot again).

I think if they fixed those 3 points the CA will be at good states and satisfying to use once you hit the castle, and actually i think their cost need to be decreased a little bit, but for now fixing those 3 points will be the best.

8 Likes

Their frame delay is just for the sake of balance. CA has high mobility and attack. They are still viable to do hit-and-run and hence a good unit to harass your villagers. When they face threat, they can just run away. You need a bit more distance for the frame delay.

UU is a bit better as they are produced in castle and harder to mass. Cavalry Archer is much easier to mass even they have 34s Training time. You can build more archery range to speed up production. I think CA is just fine and doing their job decent enough.

3 Likes

Oh really?! Just build another arch range and it is done?!! Hahahah are you joking here?! With their 60 gold, 40 wood it is very hard to mass dude, they are not Xbows they are CA!!! and with their many upgrades and with their stupid frame delay and with their stupid training time everyone will just shift to knights and Xbows, did you see a meta with CA?! No, all the meta is knights and stupid xbows or even infantry

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Today, even going for CA as huns is very situasional. Kts and skirms/crossbows are much more convenient. For CA to be effective, it is necessary to accumulate at least 20, in addition to research expensive upgrades, which is very difficult. The CA die so hard aganist Crossbows (even with blodelines), that is why they are seen very rarely, only two civilizations (Tartars and the Huns) make use of this unit consistently in the castle age, but like I said, its no even the best card that huns have in their hands, ist very situational. The frame delay should be de same that was on voobly days, the unit is kind of useles rigth now.

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Yet again another Cav Archer thread. Man this is getting tiring in the end.

How come no one, absolutely no one, thought that Cav Archers needed a buff in HD/WK, and suddenly DE comes out with absolutely 0 changes to the unit and now it’s an outrage that they aren’t getting buffed ?

As for people thinking that the devs are biased against Cav Archers or interesting theories like that, reminder tha CA got the singular biggest buff any standard unit line has received since AoC, with their gold cost being reduced by 10.

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This is what i am talking about :+1:t2:, the CA became completely useless in the castle age and rarely to see

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This -10 mean nothing, because the unit itself is very bad, and with their stupid frame delay and with their cost no one will use them except in the late castle or imperial and after many upgrades

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CA is not the same as the older game versions, do a quick test and play with them, frame delay doesn’t affect fire rate as many humans here thinks, frame delay affects HIT AND RUN, an unit like archer/xbow can do one step back and shoot immediately, the higher the frame delay the longer it takes to shoot again when moving the unit(microing), several players have lost their CA’s trying to use them like they were using them back at the voobly days, but why? simple the unit takes even 3 steps back to fire again, while receiving the constant attack from archers, low accuracy+frame delay makes the unit not worth compared to the insta fire from archer line.

Units with less or even 0 delay are emang and kipchak and archers, they are so easy to micro and perform hit and run and succeed, anyone loves to use those units.

Units with a lot of frame delay are HC and CA well and mamelukes those are the less used units and with most complains and they are all right, with hc it took me 3 steps back to shoot again, i lost to smaller number of xbow cause my thingy s weren’t shooting and were receiving constant damage, that was never a thing in the older game versions unless ofc extreme lag.

7 Likes

Yeah they need to fix this for sure

1 Like

It’s obvious their Frame Delay got changed, as many pros said, including Nicov, Hera, Viper, MbL etc…

3 Likes

Someone can correct me here. But it’s got nothing to do with steps (aka time while moving)

The effective attack delay we are complaining about is the time between the unit STOPPING movement, and firing at one target. Or the time taken before firing at a new designated target.

The archer can stop and then fire at a new target sooner than the CA. Once that target is dead the archer will then have attack delay again before firing at a new target.

Part of the attack delay is the attack animation.

The CA operates the same as the archer except its attack delay is longer and its attack animation is EFFED UP.

  1. Not only does it take much longer to fire after moving.

  2. It takes longer to fire at a new target once old one is dead (if we’re shooting archers it means shooting new targets constantly meaning attack delay constantly, as opposed to archers have attack delay less frequently since there will be fewer targets to kill.)

  3. Due to the effed up attack animation. If you interrupt it (say choosing a new target) the CA needs to restart its slow attack animation

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Because it seems the forums have unironically become a balance suggestion thread for balanced units.

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So you think the CA is balanced and good at his current state?! I bet you use them

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Yes, I do.

Weird to see a different opinion?

Because the majority of players (including the pros) all of them confirm that the CA in their currently state are stupid and not worthy to play with until the imperial age or late castle age and with specific civs

4 Likes

That sounds like how they were used already before DE, to be honest 11.

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Because they nerfed them before the DE many times. In the old times, the CA was the best unit in the game, especially for the Huns, all games were just arabia Huns war with CA, but today you rarely see them until the imperial.
Well, from what i see in the replies, i came to one thing for sure, which is that up to now the CA are still not reach their best sit in the game, and this is what one of the guys told me about that the devs in aoe2 from the beginning made more than 5 changes on the CA and they still making the changes, it is really looks like until now they don’t know how to balance this unit very well.
I will just keep watching to see what will happen in next updates

2 Likes

CA is far from trash. It is just well balanced unit.

Kipchaks and Mangudais need castle, which cost 650 stones makes them hard to mass. CA is very easy to mass and more cost-effective (See recent Spirit of The Law video, Kipchaks and Mangudais are not good in cost-effective wise in archer fight) So more frame delay than UU Cav archers are just fair.
Huns, Tatars, go for Cav Archer in most situations. Magyars and Turks also go for CA in some situations.

Additional significant Buff to CA means there will be no reason for playing Mongols and Cumans because their UU will become even worse than generic CA.

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Believe me when I say this guy knows pretty well all the balance changes that have being made xD

CA are fine. If anything, HCA could be a little cheaper, but that’s it

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I didn’t say they are easy to mass but they are still easier to mass than similar castle UU.

1 Like