The Hindustani vs Goths

The old Indians sucked really bad vs Goths and other infantry civs. Hand Cannons take ages to tech into, and by then it may already be too late.

The Goths Champions and UU simply melted the Indians in the late game. The new Indians castle unit seems to give them a fighting chance, but what do you think?

What are this new civ’s weakness?

I really think that these kind of speculation posts are obsolete until the civs actually release and we can see how they interact. I’m sure you can test this once the DLC comes out.


on top of this they are generally also inaccurate since you should normally try beat goths before they can get into their imperial age rythm

mayans are hard countered by huskarls, yet mayans have a positive win rate vs goths

Yeah. But that does not always happen. Especially in team games on closed maps like black forest.

Maybe, but most people don’t play your style of game, and pretty much no-one uses it to justify balance changes or anything.

They nerfed the Khmer and Indians before due to their late game powerhouse.

Without extra pierce armor in Castle age, it seems now the civ lacks raiding potential.
No knights, just regular LCs and faster attacking camels but not so good against TCs and castles like knights are.
Unless this Ghulam is very fast or has a lot of pierce armor like Eagles, it seems they power of the civ in Castle age has diminished.

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That wasn’t based on 4v4 BF or Michi TGs though. That was a mix of regular TGs and some 1v1s.

They are a boomer civ. That’s fine. They look godlike in the late game.

I don’t think this matchup was too bad for indians tbh. On open maps you had better eco and on closed maps you had okayish units vs goths.

But the question doesn’t indeed make too much sense now. Everything about this civ for 1v1 will depend on how the UU performes. Indians had 2 things going vs non cav civs. Extra pierce armor on light cav vs archers and cav archers vs infantry. Both options are (kinda) gone now so the UU is the only option besides skirms which probably will be their most important unit early and mid castle age.

I’ve beaten Goths at every stage of the game, even in post-Imp, with the old Indians civ no problem.
Much better eco, better siege, better light cavalry, equivalent infantry in terms of stats, better hand cannons.
Just better overall.
Goths are awful and if you lose to them then it’s because you made some kind of mistake during the game.

I’m unsure why you would say that.
Unless this Ghulam is a real beast, their options have been reduced for the late game with the loss of Elephant Archers and FU Heavy Cavalry Archers.
9 range HCs are nice, but they’re a very specialized unit.
I get the feeling that they’re banking a lot on their new UU.

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Anti archer castle unit. Anti infantry hand cannons. Camel that melt away knight spam.

Not every civ needs to be the Mayans. Would be boring.

This. This is the weak part. Even 9 range HC mean nothing in terms of timing, usability and cost-effectiveness.

Obviously, but having counters doesn’t make a civ “godlike”.
Are Incas godlike in late game? I hardly think so, and they have counters for everything you said.
Anti archer? Eagles with 10PA. Anti cavalry? Kamayuks. Anti infantry? Slinger.
However, I’m really looking forward to see this new UU stats, must be really strong.

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Indians have always been weak to Goths. It will not change, in fact Hindustanis are going to remain roughly the same against Goths, but weaker overall vs most civs:

  1. +1 pierce armor for Light Cav and Camels is stronger than 25% faster attacking rate
  2. Losing Parthian Tactics will make them really awkward in the lategame. Cav Archers have always been their power unit in 1v1-s
  3. Losing Elephant Archers means a big nerf in closed map TG-s

Solution: Do not remove EA, give them Parthian Tactics.