The Mameluke

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

The Mameluke is really good unit, but he has insane gold cost and he is armorless and he is so weak! Yes armorless without even any armor, no normal armor and no pierce armor (except the elite have 1 melee armor) , when we compare it with a strong unit like Boyar, the Boyar is cheaper and have tons of armors, the normal Boyar have 4 normal armors and 2 pierce armors and cost 50f, 80g and have 100hp. Another example like the Mameluke is the Arambai, the Arambai have 17 attack and less gold cost and 5 range and 1 pierce armor and can melt anything, so why did they make the Mameluke weak like this?! The Mameluke don’t have any armor and cost 55f, 85g die easly to archers and pikes making this unit is rarely to use or to see it in battles, i suggested before to reduce it’s gold cost to become 75 gold, but if this is hard to happen then i suggest:

-Give the Mameluke +1/+1 armor.
-increase his hit points from 65 to 75 or 80.
-Give the elite Mameluke +1 range.

At least with this it will be stronger than this and more available and worthing to use

1 Like
2

There is no need to adjust or increase their stats, aoc mameluke was the strongest unit if you managed to gather them, what is different from aoc mameluke to DE mameluke, well the nasty frame delay, it had 0 frame delay making it really strong to hit and run and efficient, now they can’t do that without taking hits, considering its current cost the unit is simply not worth training.

3

I suggest play CBA for testing unique units. They don’t need to be stronger but maybe reducing some gold cost (like 5) can be enough.

Cavalry and Cavalry Archers disappear when Mamelukes reachs them. But they don’t disappear at Boyars.

Mamelukes has 1 melee armour but they effect from Saracen unique tech and bloodlines (+50 HP to Camels)

4

The Mameluke doesn’t have any melee armor except the elite, and their UT doesn’t give them +50 but +30, i think they should really give the Mameluke +1/+1 armor or at least increase his hp.

5

Their frame delay is not bad, but they need some armors, at least +1 pierce armor will be good and their gold cost need to be cheaper

6

PLEASE TEST AOC MAMELUKE before implying it is “not bad”, i complained hard back at rise of rajas the added frame delay to mamelukes and Emang, while the emang remains strong in DE cause of the responsiveness, the mameluke is a 3 range unit, they literally killed the unit, it trades well vs paladins, while it shouldn’t trade well it should erase the paladins and vs ranged units they get destroyed, the mameluke really needs to have 0 frame delay since to hit it has to move due the poor range, while mangudai can hit without need to getting close, even arambai has more range and dps and cost less, it is so unfair for one of the most iconic units of the original game.

7 Likes
7

Yeah i totally agree with you, but when i said “not bad”, it is really not bad it is even faster than the Mangudai! Yes i agree they were better in AOC with their 0 frame delay for the elite and i think they shold get it back again.

8

-15 gold the least. Useless unit.

1 Like
9

Ok i am going to explain why Frame delay Killed the mameluke unit.

First of all you need to understand what frame delay is, it is a delay while attacking after moving, which means that after moving lets say the ranged unit it doesn’t shoot immediately it has to wait for the frame delay to fire, so frame delay was added to the game to somehow counterpart the hit and runand fast mobile ranged units.

Mameluke was an amazing unit, maybe OP same like SO, but such power is justified for such high cost and how hard is to mass them in realistic RTS scenarios. Adding frame delay to the unit really nerfed the unit so bad, because it does not only nerf hit and run but even moving forward to attack again, as mameluke has 3 range, no ballistics you can imagine how hard it got for that unit to attack and to do hit and run, the unit can’t attack properly cause of the low range it has to move over and over forward or backwards frame delay kicks in delaying their attacks, as result they get more damage than they do.

If this is not clear at this point i will give another example, lets give the same frame delay to PALADINS, ofc if you fight other paladins or champions or basically not moving units you wont find frame delay so bad, but then what happens if it has to engage moving units, lets say foot archers, paladin will hit one time when getting close then when the archer moves back and the paladin moves forward to hit again the frame delay will kick in making the paladin to take more time hitting, depending on how much the FD is the paladin might even not to hit the archer if its keeps moving backwards, while the archer keeps firing and making damage the paladin with no range would struggle and lose battles that they shouldn’t. The same happens to the mameluke after the change.

Why was FD added to mameluke? well back at the HD the mameluke was a very oppressive unit for CBA and very low level games so the devs were getting tons of complains, then they were about to release new units to the game that all of them would get destroyed by this old unit and no the devs have been clear they want to release new OP units and civs for players to test them, so it was the perfect excuse to kill the mameluke, the frame delay after several years haven’t been removed.

So the next time you might be wondering how to make the unit strong again, i hope you understand how the frame delay is a mechanic that doesn’t belong to the mameluke or basically melee units, it literally destroyed the unit, reducing its cost or boosting in any other way is not going to change anything, you will be creating a different unit than the original that was well designed.

1 Like
10

I know how frame delay works, but as i said it is still not bad, it is still less than the frame delay for Mangudai so it is better, but if you want to compare it with “0” frame delay ofcourse 0 is better, how much the frame delay is less how much it is better

11

Mameluk is so weak? Laugh it.
I watched the game that they slaughter literary everything against cavarly civs such as Cumans and Magyars. They are very powerful unit and very easily beat 50% more number of Paladin. +10 more gold cost than Paladin is not much.

I agree that some adjustment on Mameluk is fine, but not cost or more armor. They are very expensive but powerful unit from AoK/AoC and need some weakness against ranged unit because they are very strong against any Melee unit.
Maybe suggestion of @SouMexican of reducing or 0 frame delay works along with decreasing frame delay of some other ranged unit to make game more smoother. Also decrease bonus damage of heavy camel against them because they cannot be used against camel civs because heavy camel very easily beat them.

12

And giving 1 pierce armor will help somehow against ranged unit this is why i said give it 1 pierce armor, when i said weak i didn’t mean against melee units, spending 85 for such armorless unit is not even worthy, going with heavy and generic camels will be waaaay better, with the Mameluke insane cost and with his weakness against range units it is better to play camels with their 60 gold cost, giving the Mameluke +1/+1 armor will make it worthy to use

13

The problem isn’t the PA itself, but that fact that they have archer armor, that makes them so vulnerable to skirms.

Still, this is necessary, since you can’t counter them with pikes, and a trash counter is needed.

I instead would like for them to cost 70g instead of 85g, since they are basically a ranged camels, having it trained at a castle and costs 10g more that a standard camel is more than enough.

1 Like
14

Mamelukes are dangerous to buff. Think about it; they destroy cav, they destroy siege, they do higher then Mangudai damage to skirms and such. Is a unit that can get out of hand quickly.

15

and they destroy your gold stock

More seriously, I’m not opposed to mamelukes getting their 0 frame delay back. They are the most expensive of the 3 former 0 frame delay fast units and they have a shorter base range that can’t be upgraded on top of that, so if there is one unit that can be both fast and super microable it should be them.