The Mangonel meta is heading worse than springlad meta

The should never be buffed, and horseman should never be nerfed.

You still need springlad as springald is the only thing counter them and even good to kill ram and cannon.

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Seige is just broken in this game needs a nerf heavy all around especially bombards and some factions as well.

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We could discuss bombards (specially Chinese 12 tiles range) and their better vision than scouts have as well.

I feel like a lot of units-stats were randomly taken from a** or done by people who never played any kind of RTS

But at least balance-issues are shifting really constantly and very quick so we can move ahead much more faster right? :slight_smile:

I don’t understand why they buffed the Mangonel when it was fine before, the real problem being the fact that Springald was produced automatically regardless of whether there was Mangonel or not. That problem with the Springald does not exist because now it is a specific unit.

Pls stop, have you guys played the tutorial or know how to play the game? it seems like you dont, aoe4 uses a counter unit strategy,
-mangonels are a specific unit to counter mass infantry, thats the only job for a mangonel, it does it job pretty good, you just dont charge your army if you see a mangonel in front of you
-springalds counter all siege, thats the springalds job, its cheap, has long range…

you know what also counters mangonels and siege? STRATEGY you can easily beat any siege with knigths/horseman/scouts, theyre fast you just need to micro them, you need to hide them in the invis forest, you need to attack from behind, or from a side with 2 separate armies or more

No disrespect guys but a lot of the forums posts calling for nerfs, metas, “siege op” stuff are coming from new or bad players

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Real nyanracingcat?!? Or impersonating?

I read it here in another thread but something that makes sense to me is to limit the vision range of some Siege. Mangonel and Bombard especially don’t need the sight range that they have. In all honesty this kind of should apply to the Trebuchet as well but the Treb is in such a weird place in this game that if they nerf that sight range it would benefit from some synergy in Imperial, maybe through upgrades that increase its damage (burning ordnance or rotting / diseased ordnance for AOE anti infantry dmg or reduced production speed on buildings or something)

I like the idea of buffing civs to the level of the Mongols rather than nerfing stuff so maybe an allround torch dps increase against Siege would also suffice.

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Or from players who are bored of 10 springalds+5mangonels meta since it has nothing to do with acutal fun gameplay and how those unit/engines worked irl?

Or am I wrong?

I should return in time and tell French they should use mangonels to win at Agincourt or Grecy.

Seriously at least in TG when u dont go this u simply lost already … (yes u can switch mango for NoB)

On top of that … Why are SE faster than some infantry and have better vision than scouts? Whats the point behind this one?

(And yes nothing is better than to face against massed Chinese bombards with extra HP and 12 tiles range)

Quality gameplay above all.

I dont say remove all SE just make them different

Probably on my post cause am barking here on forum about LOS of sieges for last 2 weeks next to FL nerf

walls
Just build a wall.

Walls don’t so much with op bombards and seige in general die really fast.unless segie gets a heavy nerf like it needs.

You’re using the same argument as those who argued that Nest of bees in beta didn’t need to be nerfed because if you were a really good player with a good Springalds mic you could win.

In my case, I simply asked why the devs buffed mangonels and yes the meta is still very favorable to doing a lot of siege.

Yea this is broken AF. Not to mention 50% more health feels like a tank than a bombard. Also the stupid speed they get from dynasty WTF does that mean? Is this a bullet proof car with cannon attachment??? Forget infantry, even horses cannot catch them. And with these, they still buffed Chinese in last patch. REALLY? And I don’t know why developers are intentionally nerfing civs like Dehli and Abbasid?

Especially the Chinese siege.

Just make siege move slower and reload slower. That’s all it needs. Especially bombards. Damage and other stats can remain as they are.

I hate when I chase down an enemy siege unit with my infantry and I find myself on the other side of the map when I finally catch up. And that’s if I’m still alive by then.

I guess I don’t know how to play this game but somehow in top100?

In discord group discussion, other people similar or higher rank than me all hate it and think siege are too strong. Cav don’t counter siege when they are in numbers. They die to it, epically with spear to protect and vill can out repair damage.

There is no counter to it other than having more siege on your own. Recently changed like ram and horse man nerf make some counter strategy impossible to do, as it is harder to finish a game before siege war. Games are playing toward going to age 3 more or even age 4 then flight in age 2 because of that.

When we should be finally out of springlad meta last patch, mid/late game springlad is kind of still a must to do too… If dev. want to make ram useful, they should nerf springlad damage on ram, springlad able to destroy ram make a lot of strategy to counter siege not very possible.

idk, in top100 1v1 games, mangonels are fairly rare, usually you will see max 1-2 in castle age right now.

In team games, sure they are a big deal but that’s hard to fix without making them either useless in 1v1 or doing a huge rework and making them do friendly fire damage (and probably like doubling-tripling their damage to make up for it or something).

You need to mass them or they get ruined by cav and if you mass mangos in 1v1 somehow despite their cost, you don’t have army space to protect them and then your opponent builds like 3 springalds or bombards and wipes you.

Lancers are pretty popular for most civs right now in castle which mangos don’t do great against, and you can’t even build them vs Rus as they get destroyed by scouts super easily.

A mag cost 600 resources but it takes 3 shots to kill an infantry unit. It’s reload is slow enough that if you get hot once you have ample time to runaway before the second shot. Also you can charge with infantry or calvary within its can’t shoot range.

Seige was used a whoooooole lot in th past few tournaments and never in the top matches do I remember it coming down to a who can mass more artillery war (except when one of the players was china…)

It is standard if playing castle to at least make 2 springs which can 2 shot mag and are fast enough to get away from charging infantry.

I believe the only imbalance seiges unit are the bombard and the Chinese faction seige.

Lastly I wouldn’t mind if they made the mag reload take a fraction longer.

The bombard imo needs a massive HP nerf. 1 bombard 1k resources SHOULD die to 2 springs 1k resources.

Right now a fully upgraded Chinese bombard can destroy 3 springs firing simultaneously… that’s 1500 res springs vs 1k res Chinese bombard. Not to mention if the Chinese player has villagers repairing it fast enough that bombard cannot die unless you have enough springs to snipe it in one volley (8+ springs!!!).

A standard bombard should have less than 320 hp (dies to 3 spring shots).