The next patch need to do something about Ottoman play rate

Ottomans are totally OP, their grenadiers have no counter

Yes maybe azap as well. They don’t need 4x multiplier vs light cavalry

This post is talking about the ease of playing ottomans, I want to up the difficulty level so that it doesn’t dominate the ladder, we want to see more civs being played. It’s not about strength of the civ.

If ottoman is more complicated to play maybe we will see the play rate drops, but win rate could still be the same


I’m not suggesting changing the card to nerf Azaps. I’m suggesting streamlining the function and making the description more concise.

Right now it improves the attack animation of Azaps and Cavalry Archers, buffs the attack of both by 15%, and reduces the RoF of Azaps by 0.25. All 3 effects amount to different ways of improving DPS. I’m saying it should improve the attack animation of Azaps and Cavalry Archers, and set the RoF of both to 1.4. That does essentially the same thing, by only having 2 effects instead of 3.

I don’t think anything that reduces stats or cost is ever a base reduction, and anything that is through an aura like Drummers is based off current stats. Otherwise you’d have the potential to stack effects and get negative values. At least with things that reduce cost that’s generally how it works, so order of cost reducing cards/techs can matter. It’s actually less risky working like that, because Wind Horses + a Drummer doesn’t give -15% RoF, it gives -14.5% RoF, and if there was anything else you can stack there would be diminishing returns.

Thats kinda up to you but on a balance consideration its definitely not needed, faster to just change the description.

No its mostly is base percent reduction, they just get around the stacking problem with some shadow teching, alot of it.

checking the files now for example the vasa tech is a bare reduction

You can get some very bonkers deduction if you ever stack say the native warriors and the Philhellenism tech from Wittelsbach

So is the wind horse reduction

Its also why for example the russian debuff was so harsh on the poruchik, its a base stat reduction and their base stats was so high that made its starting stat looked horrible

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Why not just a penalty vs Infantry for Azaps

That’s kind of a stupid way to do it. I had assumed current cost reduction was the default since a lot of the building cost reduction stuff such as Land Grab is based on current stats. I’m not aware of any overlapping attack speed cards/tech, but as soon as they add a new one that does overlap it could be extremely broken. There are already ones like Somali Jile Daggers that are kind of ridiculous for foot archer tagged heavy infantry like Azaps and Holcan Javelineers.

Building cost reduction and build reductions are more likely to be based on current numbers since the reductions are usually in the 40-50% range so stacking has the risk of zeroing out, there were a bunch of those in TAD.

But for most reductions you kinda want it in base percent as long as its small since otherwise increases and decreases wont cancel out properly and be order dependent

If you for example send something like dynasty reforms which increases base on base cost then something like the mapuche cost reduction will be greater if you get the tech after reform then before it and that will be very stupid.

edit: another example is the napoleon revolt 100 days card, which has a 30% stat reduction on muskets. If it was based on current stats, then it really matters when you send the card since a 30% current stat reduction is a lot bigger on a imperial musket and then base musket. a 30% base reduction on the other hand is just losing guard tech

There is already a double reduction for wind horse and the italian church tech, but its already balanced in that italian goons arent that good.

but yeah dont mess with ROF directly if you can ever help it.

No, the potential range is fine. I would agree that it be postponed until imperial.

Age range:
Age II:12
Age III:14
Age IV:18
Age V:20