The old burgandians and old sicilians vs the new ones

Yes as you see the title, the old vs the new, and myabe some of you will say" what do you mean?! They are new not old" well i will show you.

When the developers came up with new expansion with 2 new civs, they showed us what is their bonuses and here they are:


-A fallen knight return 50% of their gold cost

Other things are the same except having the Cavalier upgrade which was not mentioned in the advertisement and they didn’t say they have 50% discount on stables techs.


-With each farm upgrade farmers have +1 carry capacity
-land military take 33% less damage (now they have 50%) from any bonus attack.

In my opinion, Sicilians are fine except the 50% less damage but i prefer to get back the old Burgandians with the fallen knight and it is not OP at all and it is actually very balanced and give them bloodlines and remove the cav upgrade in castle and remove the 50% discount on stable techs.

So what do you think? Have the old or the new?! I mean for Burgandians exactly and Sicilians for military bonus

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I think Fallen Knights return 50% of gold cost is just a mediocre bonus - even if Deathcounter and other guys were crying that is OP - Who wants to lose Knights? It is a civ with trash economy bonus and no other bonuses

+1 carry capacity for each Farm Upgrade is trash I suggest +2
The Sicilian bonus is indeed stupidly broken and I want to see a reduction to 33%

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Yeah exactly. Many people said the fallen knignt is broken (including me at the first time), but when you think of it, it is not broken at all, it is actually well balanced because as you said who wants to lose his knights?! Burgandians don’t have eco bonuses so it is fine to have their fallen knights and give them bloodlines too and remove the cav upgrade in castle age and 50% discount on stable techs

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That could happen, but I guess the Cavalier bonus has a great synergy with the cheaper Stable Techs. They probably won’t remove it, but it’s indeed a great bonus for a new empire. (not duchies)

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If they give them back the fallen knight and give them bloodlines, i don’t think they need to have the 50% stable tech discount or the cav upgrade in castle


Burgundians have no eco bonus or easily accessible military bonuses - I think 50% cheaper Stable technologies without Bloodlines is stronger, than Fallen Knights bonus and Bloodlines. - at this point just delete this civ and make another.

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I haven’t try the sicilians yet

But burgundians are pretty much ok, except of course their UU that need to be tuned down.

The cavalier upgrade is a slower and more expensive BL, and you can see more powerfull cav from lithuanians

The castle UT i don’t know, it may be op in long games, but i feel better players would use their resources more efficiently and don’t stack a lot of food…

The castle UTs are fine, but i think old burgandians are better from balance view

I prefer them now, the knight bonus wasn’t good, since losing units is never a good strategy (I mean we all know that madrasah is useless…).

As for the extra carry capacity, it would be like aztecs, but only in imp, and as SotL pointed out, after HP and HC (so basically in late castle age) the aztec bonus lose any advantage, and their farming becomes like anyone else.

Lastly, the halved bonus damage have to be further tested, but for now it doesn’t seem OP.

Have you seen mbl vs Zuppi today? The Flemish Revolution is completely broken. Zuppi had 2k score lead, mbl was cockroaching in Castle Age, he reached Imperial Age somehow and suddenly killed all of Zuppi’s army with 180 Flemish Militias. Flemish Militias are as strong as Viking Champions.

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I don’t mind to keep the Sicilians farms as they are now, but the military bonus with 50% less damage seems not balanced. About Burgandians i think the fallen knight+bloodlines is much better

Old burgundians with BL and no castle cav, i think they would be the best knight civ

Just imagine an even match, their enemies would ran out of gold long before the burgs. Not to mention that BL would be a buff to coustelliers

I think I like the new burgs more, you get an early edge with a unit that you know won’t keep up to other palas in the long run

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Yeah i think they should do something about flemish miltia somehow

This was a much more original idea than the returning cost. Returning cost is essentially a discount which boring compared to having a “unique unit” in the form of an early weaker cavalier /paladin.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this is what it goes to post patch. The farm carry is weak but its better than nothing and combined with the first farm upgrade means we can delay plow because we have the carry and the farm size already…

I didn’t comment on Sicilians farm and i said they are fine now, i just talked about the 50% military bonus. Well lets see what the devs will do by the next update because the next update will be very soon and so fast especially many people complain about the current patch including the pros