The Palace Guard Change is the Wrong Way to Nerf China

Hi all!

As y’all may know, last week the devs posted a balance patch to the PUP. Unfortunately, the PUP ended yesterday, so we didn’t have much testing time. In that patch they nerfed the NOB, nerfed the Fire Lancer, and nerfed the Palace Guard. Now, as a China main who tries to mitigate his own bias, I’m quite fine with the first two changes. Both the NOB and the FL can be strong and oppressive. But I have to say that the Palace Guard nerf is wrong, and that there’s a better way to nerf.

In the patch they increased the PG gold cost by 5, from 100f/20g to 100f/25g. For a frontline unit you’re supposed to spam, this is massive. 20 palace guards are going to cost 100 more gold compared to before, and that adds up. Palace guard already trade unfavorably vs MAA because of their lower armor, which is to compensate for their higher movespeed.

Some players (including pros like beasty) have said that this change is necessary because each palace guard produces 8 gold in taxes when produced. But this misunderstands the mechanic. Taxes do not go directly into your gold bank. Rather, they need to be collected by an IO. So the tax income rate is more tied to how often an IO can collect and drop off the taxes. Saying that each PG is 8 gold cheaper because of taxes then assumes that an IO is always able to collect all the tax gold, far from a certainty. Furthermore, having an IO on tax collection has the opportunity cost of forgoing supervising a resource or production building. This is a real disincentive from having an IO dedicated to tax collection, instead of getting 20% more food/wood/gold/stone or pushing out a bunch of Palace Guard.

Rather, the real problem with palace guard is not when they first get unlocked in castle, but rather when Yuan Dynasty kicks in and they become Knights on two legs. This is when they can feel oppressive and unfair. But this is moreso to do with Yuan than PG. Yuan is super, super good. Not only does it speed up your military but also your villagers, which both boosts your income and also makes running vills away from harassment much easier. Yuan is the reason why PG can be an issue.

So I propose, instead of nerfing palace guard, nerf Yuan dynasty by reducing the speed bonus from 15% to 10%. This has the additional benefit of making Fire Lancers less strong, so maybe we don’t need to nerf the Fire Lancer either.

PS: Possibly consider buffing Ming to also affect villagers, just like how yuan does. This makes going from Yuan to Ming feel less bad than it currently does


too much nerf of their unique that make china so good and in season 5 china will be ranked D tier…

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Or better, swap ming and yuan bonus, that way enemy have more time to make walls and army against “OP” Palace guard and fire lancer spam

Agree, in S5 we trade
-grens buff from trash to very good (it is super counterable, someone did the test and math already in another thread that they lost to equal resource of spread HC or mangonels (for all covs) or sipahis, war elephants, longbow on spread, and ribalds for those who have it, someone’s video on youtube testing it against bunch up MAA and Knight sure misleading, because grens counter them)
-Imperial Palace and Spirit way become tax drop off (well some proxy wood or proxy farm tax) maybe around extra 200 to 300 golds a minute.

We trade it with:
-zhuge nu spam nerf in feudal
-palace guard nerf in all stages especially post imp
-Fire lancer nerf
-is NoB got buffed with 1 extra rocket? that is 12.5% damage increase vs the old 25% discount, in S4 we can #### # ### with 40 arrows, in S5 we will only get 4 NoB with 36 arrows, what buff is that some super pro youtuber that said even the +1 rocket is a buff.


The +1 rocket is a buff just in terms of pop efficiency.

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I rather have the old tech, it is strobger than the +1 rocket




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with the china win rate i’m sure to china need to be prior on the nerfing program…

Maybe DEV could look a bit on malian and ottoman …

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I’m sorry i don’t know what are you talking about, this is from the latest patch


it’s ironic dude ironic.

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