I started a thread a while ago which while not as comprehensive as this did touch on this notion that the Portuguese could have some cool unique features. My suggestion was to make that Caravel an armed trade cog. That would definitely make sense from a historical perspective and also add a cool new mechanic to the game and a unique feature for the Potuguese giving them the ability to create trade routes that can essentially defend themselves.
The potential to build Caravel deathballs is what eventually gives Portuguese a chance on water. I don’t think that anyone would want their Caravels trading when they could just go and destroy everything.
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How about giving them an outpost early buff? Like, outposts built faster and/or outposts costing no stone. I feel like that would not affect their early stages too much aggressive-wise and would help them control their territory earlier, which would cause better response and defense to help them get to their so powerful late game.
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Any outpost bonus would have synergies with their teambonus (they share their LOS at early age), which would be nice
I prefer their sharing LOS removed. Because in game settings you use shared LOS anyway. It becomes pointless. Shared LOS should be either after making Market or toggling from game settings. Don’t just make it civ bonus the way it is now.
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True, I forgot that now is shared by default in most games.
In that case, any LOS/outpost bonus as a teambonus would be fine.
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The deal is that there aren’t much LOS bonus available outta there. Outpost LOS is taken by Ethiopian (and is useless after town patrol so it’s not even a good bonus) Korean, Mongols and Magyars have all the other Dark/Feudal LOS bonuses. The last one that isn’t taken is on infantry, but since the free tracking in DE has been left in Feudal, I think they aren’t going to give such a bonus in Dark age.
You may give the LOS bonus to other things, since trade carts/cogs to houses
Very useless, yes, but more useful than current bonus.
Although Id rather make a bonus to outposts for them.
I think that they should rework the bonuses. The Gold bonus is nice but I would perhaps prefer a military bonus like gunpowder and ships have +5% per age fire rate bonus. Or just remove the cartography bonus and give them a military bonus.
For Water i would prefer that they rework caravels calling them Nau and making them a turtle ship like unit.
Whatever, what I want is that they make the Portuguese a viable and competitive civ at pro level at least on water maps. If they are not specially good on land maps well ok but at least make them strong on water maps.
Fair enough, I hadn’t though of that, in that case maybe one interesting idea would be to give the Caravel the ability to earn gold by fighting similar to the Keshik. That would be thematicly consistant with their gold discounts, and also support earlier water battles by allowing them to generate some gold to help ship production. Also again its consitant with the historic Portuguese as well.
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Save it for a pirate civ (Berbers or something). Portuguese already have more gold generating options than any other civ thanks to the Feitoria, and giving a ranged unit gold generation could be pretty broken. And the caravel is already a strong unit - a ship that has extra armor and a blast radius like a scorpion definitely doesn’t need another special ability. Points for creativity though. I’m not at all convinced that Portuguese need a buff, given how strong they are in late game, and given that we’ve started to see the development of a viable fast Imp - Feitoria strat on arena. If they do get a buff, it should be a small one that helps their early game.
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I understand you point of view, however I think that the feitoria was a bad idea because free ressources can easily break the competitivity of the game and it makes things difficult to balance. In my opinion it would be too hard to buff Portuguese threw feitoria. There is the risk too buff too much and not enough. In my opinion balancing threw free ressources generation is too difficult.
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Gotta say, love the feitoria myself as an idea and in the execution too. They are a post-imperial civ. That’s where they shine. All is good.
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in Ranked TG’s is just like that, you don’t get friendly LOS until market is built so Portuguese really shines for their team bonus in rankeds early on; an outpost cost/build time bonus could be a huge synergy on non water maps (where portugueses don’t shine as good as other civs)
IMO there’s no point in giving a bonus to fire rate for gunpowder units that escalates through the ages, their earliest gunpowder unit comes from castle at castle age anyways, so it would be better to improve their fire rate (something like a free thumb ring for gunpowder) at imperial age and normal fire rate at castle age (They still have arquebus so, all good)
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Let’s make portuguese more historically accurate by giving them 100% more gold on trade cog units if allied with indians 11
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i wouldn’t be against xD ! still a buff i would take it hahaha
They really do need some rework
This thread seems abandoned but I will necro it anyway until the Portuguese do have received a buff, my suggestions fit best here.
Here A some proposals for discussion, of which maybe a subset could be chosen to strike the right balance:
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Caravel +5% movement speed (at the moment same with galleons). This would put them in the middle of berbers and galleons and differentiate it stat wise. Also fits aboves historical context.
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Caravel creation time 36s to 32s.
Elite caravel 36s to 28s. This helps the Portuguese to compensate their lack of shipwrights and gives an incentive to use this unit over galleons. Galleons have 36s creation time as well. -
-15% gold cost includes techs. It sounds better on paper. It is actually relatively small buff in Castle, and a huge one in imperial age. Chinese get 10/15/20% cheaper techs in feudal/Castle/imp which is vastly superior.
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Increase the effect of the UT Arquebus on elite cannon galleons and BBT very slightly again. Currently the effect is barely even noticeable.
Lastly a collection of three possible further (elite) organ gun buffs:
- The extra bullets damage gets changed. Currently if those extra bullets miss and hit another target, then their damage of 2 is reduced to 1. I propose changing the damage to always 3 (and 4 for elite) ignoring armor and dealing full damage even if hitting another target than intended. Reduce the main bullets damage to 12 to keep the single target damage same.
Currently if all bullets hit the intended target:
Non elite: 16 + 4x2=24
Elite: 20+4x2 = 28
This is changed to
Non elite: 12 + 4x3 = 24
Elite: 12 + 4x4 = 28
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Organ gun frame delay from 6 to 5.
Elite from 6 to 4.
This helps alleviate the graphic glitch of smoke coming out of the barrel but no shot fired, also a small buff. Crossbow have 5 frame delay for comparision. -
Elite organ gun 7->8 range (drop this if 5 is adopted)
Organ guns fall behind a lot after paladins, Elefant, siege onagee, siege rams, and mass hussars are in late imperial. If they were atleast good against groups of enemy’s as they are supposed to, they would have a role outside of castle age deathball snowballing.
NOTE: 1-7 are separate suggestions, dont view them as a complete package.
I feel like Portuguese are intentionally kept bad because the feitoria would otherwise cause more adverse discussions…
Caravels are a pretty good unit already, a large mass of them wipes the floor with the enemy navy. Mix in a few demo ships and that’s it.
If you are referring to the projectile movement speed bonus of the Arquebus, I got nothing against buffing that. Evading it can be a bit too easy with micro and takes away the whole point of having it predict the movement path of the enemy units.
About the organ gun I’m not going to say anything for the moment. I haven’t touched it recently.
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