Just don’t go imp. Maybe something like open xbows and add tcs, before huskarl numbers get to high go full knights and once you have food overflow go raid with light cav and switch to xbows again when there is lots of pikes. If you go imp you’ll need a huge advantage to win because Vietnamese have no answer to Goths here so I think all-in castle age works best.
Thanks for the imput
So the only reason for going to imp would be cannons and trebs (and champions) if i wanted to break castles or walls.
How does scorps perform against huskarls?
I’m just wondering how players are managing to send a vill forward to lame a boar without losing more than they cause the other player to lose.
I just watched Hera’s analysis of his KotD quarter final game, and he was surprised when watching the replay afterwards to see that his drush seemed to gain him nothing at all, because his reduced attention on his own base cancelled out what the drush achieved. So if even Hera has that problem, what hope do lesser players have?
To lame the opponent’s boar, you first have to find it, which means either your vill is going to spend a lot of time scouting and being unproductive, or you have to use your scout, which means you aren’t using your scout to find your own resources. Again, in a recent game I saw Hera fail to find his own sheep due to sending his scout away from his own base before they had been found. Sheep and boar can be a long way from your TC with the current Arabia map gen.
So, you have to use up the time of your scout to try to find the enemy and their boar. You have to use up the time of a vill to travel there. You are potentially failing to find some of your own resources. You have reduced ability to manage the vills at your own base. I’d need a lot more convincing before I’d see this as some sort of easy gift advantage for the Goths player.
Also, Mayans and Chinese can get loom as the first thing they do, so they have almost the same ability to send a loomed-up vill forward.
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Goths can send that villager without losing anything, free loom is basically an extra villager, same with lithuanians fast drush killing boar, those 2 strats can and will be more used since it is 100% worth to lame/kill a boar and wall resources, most players skip loom until going up, sheeps are way too far now so you have to spend time looking for them instead of being aware of your own map.
Laming has always been worth, positions are 90% of the time predictable, so no, laming is relatively easy once you get used to it, same like stealing boars.
Laming with a vill is an extremely risky strat. There’s good chance that even if you don’t lose your vill, that boar gets taken in time by the other player or gets taken back. It’s a high risk high reward strategy.
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Sure the viet may lose group fights champ v champ, but assuming they aren’t stupid theyll mix in halbs and karls, which your champs can clean. If you’re all champs and they are the mix of the 3, viet wins. If they go all champs, you mix archers which no doubt you’ve already been playing to this point.
Not saying it’s a hard counter, just that the vietnamese should be able to field a composition to be competitive.
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The free loom is only a slight buff…it might make the Goth players be able to wall up sooner in maps like Black Forest where walling is necessary and surviving against wolves is necessary…but no matter *what civ you play as, you should always get loom and loom anyways is only 50 gold cost.
While I kinda agree that this is a strong boost to Goths if they decide to do early Militia rush in the Dark Age…it should be easy to handle if you are experienced in quick walling with houses and palisade walls to protect your miners, lumber jacks, and foragers if your villagers are too far away from the protection of your Town Center.
And if you have mastered the “The Art of War” campaign-learning tutorial series…you should be able to get to Feudal age quickly (10 minutes or less) and then pump out Archers so that you can easily combat the enemy Goth militia/men-at-arms.
According to the dev diary…the devs almost did not give Vietnamese the Champion upgrade, but settled on giving them it as they found via testing that Vietnamese would not perform well against a post-Imp Gothic player.
Have you played as Vietnamese against Goths frequently? If you have not, then perhaps getting into Champions is your best way to combat the Goths, especially as Vietnamese get the final infantry defense upgrade at the Blacksmith, while Goths do not.
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My two cents here on the Goths:
They are not “OP” but they are sure annoying to deal with, yes. But Goths can be countered effectively by Byzantine Cataphracts with Logistica, Teutonic infantry (that get +2 melee armor in Imperial Age) and Teutonic Knights, Slavic infantry with Druzhina, Bulgarian swordsmen with their +5 melee armor, and Viking infantry (with extra HP)
Technically, the Malay Imp tech that makes their Two-Handed Swordsmen dirt cheap, and in a prolonged game, Malay will win out against Goths as gold becomes harder to come by.
Mangonels/Onager/Siege Onager (especially as Celts) and Heavy Scorpion (as Celts or as Khmer) are decent counters if you amass enough of them.
And remember that the tech Supplies makes producing Swordsmen a lot easier now, so if you pick a civ that at least has Supplies, you should have a chance in beating the Goth player.
The only match up that can become really unfair is mayans vs goths, all the other civs have at least a decent chance at winning. I think overall goths are fine, though I would have preferred devs to give them something different than free loom.
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His game with playing Lithuanians? He killed boars with Lithuanians 3 minute drush. 2 militia cost 120 food and 40 gold, used up entire eco bonus of Lithuanians. But I think Goths is other case. Goths can kill boars only with villagers because of their instant free loom and bonus damage against boars. Pay much less risk/cost and opponent cannot kill villager with dark age scout because of free loom and easily survive using palisade wall. Also, in lower level, opponents are not that good to deal with these strategies. I think it is better to argue with another example playing with Goths laming strategy. it is already showed in top player’s game and effective. I watched Vivi playing with Goths with that strategy and win against MbL in ladder a few days ago.
Chinese build order is very tight with their penalty in starting food and wood. They have no room for sending villager forward in dark age. Mayans is similar case but they have to mine gold anyway for drush and no bonus damage against boar. I think at least goths should get -50 gold for their free loom or change to other bonus which pay off later like MAA upgrade cost discount.
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I think the attack bonus the Gothic villagers have against big huntable animals should be eliminated. Now they have free loom so this is not needed anymore. Moreover, the combination of the two bonus just make the Goths too strong for laming
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My suggestion is that the dev return supplies to Mayans, making them at least stand a small chance against Huskarls
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Heaven forbid some civs have outside the box strategies.
Not really worth it because of mobility and pierce armor. You could do it when their infantry mix mainly features pikes so that these are massively damaged and your knights can kill the huskarls. But I don’t think this would work too well vs Goths in general. Also if you go too crazy on scorps the Goths player could just sit back and go to imp and besides the fact that vietnamese don’t get heavy scorps it’s pretty difficult to use scorps offensively in castle age.
Thing is that your champs are a reaction to your opponents infantry unless you start with longswords in castle age. And the time and res to get the upgrades just allows your opponent to swarm infantry and get you to a defensive situation which you probably won’t be able to come back from. These kinds of tech switches against Goths (especially as vietnamse who lack blast furnace) only work if you are already decently ahead.
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Yeah you nailed it. To beat the goths you have to be aggressive early and get ahead haha.
Also if you’re playing the goths and are surprised by their unit comp, you’re doing it wrong haha. You should have time to prep the tech switch.
There are quite a few civs that have a bad matchup against goths because of a lack of an easy, effective answer to the Huskarl. Why should Mayans get help over the other civs? Not every civ needs to have an even matchup against the Goths, or any other civ for that matter. It’s not like the Mayans are low tier.
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