The time has come: Let's buff our Native American civs Late Game!

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
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Hello fellow explorers!

As you know, there is a strong possibility we will get many changes to the Native American civs in the next months, possibly coming with their Home City customizations, as was the case with Incas.

The following post are my suggestion, most of them relatively easy to implement and mostly targeting the Late Game (as a Treaty player, I can’t really help with the Early game perspective, but feel free to comment).

You can assume that any card or tech suggested should be appropriately priced and unlocked only in an appropriate age as well.

I hope you enjoy and share my passion to help those civs.

LAKOTA + HAUDENOSAUNEE COMMUNITY PLAZA

  • Limit for Healers raised to 20
  • Healers can now go on the Community Plaza (counting as 1 villager on it)

Goal of the change : Give a purpose to an unused unit while removing the unjust pressure on those two civs that need to sacrifice their villagers to use the Plaza.
As Healers would be at the value of 1 pop on the Plaza, they would still not be as good as Aztecs Warrior Priests and be harder to amass (20 needed).

LAKOTA CHANGES

Economy
NEW CARD: Huntable now provide 20% of their resources as coins. (Ex.: if the villager was gathering 2food/s, he would now be at 1.6food/s + 0.4coin/s instead). That % is arbitrary and could be balanced, but I am sure you get the idea.
Goal: Lakota late game economy is notoriously bad (they only have a 10% bonus for Estates with their cards). This aim to help there while focusing on the unique playstyle and the infinite Bison card.

Military
CHANGE to TEEPEES: Put a cap on the staking of teepees (probably 50% HP and attack boost would be fair) and increase the bonuses provided for one teepee (possibly via the cards linked to those).
Goal: Stop the need to build all teepees on the same spot for max (insane) value (this is abused in Treaty). This will save some wood and stop the constant deleting and relocaliation of teepees.

HAUDENOSAUNEE CHANGES

Economy
NEW CARD: 1200 wood crate.

Military
NEW CARD: War Hut and Stable units get -15% Training Time and wood cost of Tomahawk and Kanya Horseman replaced by coin.

Goal: This would fix the wood issue of the civ (now only siege and buildings would need wood, like most civs.) and provide some much needed reduction to one of the worst civ for training times of base units.

AZTECS CHANGES

Their economy is actually fine, but hurt by a pretty bad army, so my thinking is that helping that would relieve stress on their economy.
For this, I suggest working with the Big Buttons. As you know, for Aztecs, those only provide units, scaling with the game timer up to 30 minutes. I suggest one extra feature: after the tech is researched, it will provide an extra benefit after 30 minutes (If reserched before 30 minutes, otherwise, you will receive the benefit right away).

Barometz: Puma Spearman gets +15% HP and attack.
That unit is fine in its role, but this should help a bit.

Cinteotl Worship: Noble Hut units Training Time is reduced by 15%.
Eagle Runner are the best units they have, so a generic help to all the Noble Hut units should be fine here.

Coatlicue Worship: Otontin Slingers get an extra 1.0 multiplier against Heavy Infantry.
Basically the same as Counter Infantry Riffle, an Arsenal tech that they do not have.

Tezcatlipoca Worship: Unlock the Training of Skull Knights at the Noble Hub (insert appropriate cost).
Why not? :smiley:

War Song: Arrow Knights damage type is now Siege.
This would help the unit bypass many resistances and make them deadly to enemy artillery, one of the civ main weakness.

4 Likes
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If you play treaty then I understand your reasons for buffing these civs but the native civs are very strong early game civs in general and they’re supposed to have a weaker late game otherwise they’d be strong at everything.

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Supposed to have bad lategame? Says who?

I like the aztec changes.
What I would change is make aztec warrior priest population cost free.

2 Likes
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This is already the case! Warrior Priest | Age of Empires Series Wiki | Fandom

That would make more sense if those civs were dominating in Supremacy.
The only complaint I think I remember about those 3 civs in the past year was about Lakota Siege damage, but feel free to correct me.

Most of the changes I proposed would not affect Early game, are slow and costly.

1 Like
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I play a lot of 3v3 ranked games around 1200-1300 elo and nobody plays these civs.

Only vanilla Europe civs, sometimes incas, Sweden or Japan.

China, native Americans or Africans also USA are extremely rare. If nobody plays, nobody complains

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add trade card food for gold

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All of them do have high win percentages in supremacy, that’s why they’ve been nerfed continuously. Their performance at the highest level is very different to how they do vs average players which make up the majority.

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I think some concepts from the african civs could fit really well with the theme of some of the warchiefs civs, like giving hauds a card that yields a bit of wood upon killing an enemy, this would encourage them to play aggressively still lategame while rewarding them and letting them fund their core units(arty and tomas).

As for lakota, I actually think they’re the most coherent warchiefs civ in terms of design even though they have probably the least options, my suggestion in a thread I started a while go was an Age1 card called "Naturalists or something similar, it would go something like this: All villagers gather 5% faster, ALL natural resources last much longer(25%)
This would synergize well with their theme, and infinite bison shipment lategame with little to no effect to making their early game op.

For azzys I agree, econ is actually fine but I think they just struggle with taking out large groups of infantry. I was thinking they could get an age4 card(or it just unlocks at age 4) for the coyote runner that gives them a charge attack that does more attack and maybe slight area damage(that might need testing as area damage becomes extremely OP with more units, and coyotes are 1 pop so…) similar to the skull knight charge attack. This would make them really strong as a shock unit that does large initial damage but becomes weaker as the fight goes on, which fits their style well imo.

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Las tres civilizaciones necesitan que los aldeanos tengan una mejor producción de oro, solo con las minas son rentables y luego que se terminan tienden a decaer económicamente. Te obligan a tener un montón de cartas económicas para poder subsistir en partida.
Propongo que se añada a la plaza comunitaria un nuevo botón que se llame Ritual de la cosecha.
El ritual de la cosecha mejora por aldeano danzante un 2% en recolección de alimentos y oro en granjas y plantaciones. El efecto se revierte al usar otras funciones de la misma plaza.

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Most of these changes help their late game. Lakota is very easy to stop in the early game with smart wall sections, and once a full wall comes up with bastion, lakota is very much done.

At least as far as lakota is concerned, they do need help with gold in the late game.

1 Like
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In my opinion the only civ that needs a buff is Haud with that wood issue. Maybe aztecs need a boost to coyotes vs skirmishers but nothing else.
I dont see any problem with lakota, they are food heavy, not coin, and wood is not that great problem cause they can cut a lot during treaty time and they dont need so much for teepees.

1 Like