At present, the Chinese do not have any landmarks or dynasty units that are practical.
Zhuge crossbow still can’t hit heavy armor units.
Fire spear cavalry can’t beat light armor long-range units.
The Grenadier has no chance to be produced at all.
After significantly weakening Chinese landmarks and Dynasty units, I really don’t understand why we should further weaken imperial officials and barns? And there is no compensation in this process?
Is that what you want?
I emphasize again: the excessive pursuit of balance is not good for the game. It will only make all civs homogeneous and make the game boring and single.
I just don’t understand why Chinese should be weakened all the time.
Only blindly weaken, and weaken in many aspects (Imperial officials and granaries are about to be or have been cut), but at the same time, they hardly give corresponding enhancement.
At present, no landmark or dynasty unit in China has practical value. FL is even less competitive than ordinary riders. The only bullet thrower with combat effectiveness (but very high cost): it is likely to be weakened in the future version, because someone in the forum has suggested that it will be directly reduced to useless according to the weakening style of the production team.
I don’t deny that China Unicom has some aspects that need to be weakened, but there are also many aspects that don’t need to be weakened. The reason why these aspects are weakened is purely because some players are not skilled and don’t want to think: if they are defeated by chinesciv in the game, they don’t reflect on tactics at the first time, but cry about “chineseop” in the forum, Mislead the production team to do a lot of unnecessary weakening.
IO change might be a bug, not a nerf, although we don’t know when can they fix it.
Fire Lancer was op before, you can still use it to do some base trade now, but I think it is ok to return FL ranged attack bonus .
if you want to mention homogeneous, my answer is yes. At least that’s what I saw from Company of heroes 2, another Relics game. In order to achieve balance, all factions in Company of heroes 2 trend to be same.
Balancing civilizations is the goal of every game that wants to do something in the competitive scene and it guarantees the variety of strategies with different civilizations. That thing about making the game boring is the biggest falsehood ever told.
You write that the Zhuge Nu are weak against heavy armor, logical, they are made to be eliminated against that.
The FL is designed to support other units (charge at the right time), raid the economy, snipe buildings and be anti-siege.
The Grenadier is a very powerful unit, so it takes time to build.
Nobody here has said that China is balanced, it still needs to correct the IO and give the secondary Landmarks some love so that they have several options.
I just don’t understand why Chinese should be weakened all the time.
Only blindly weaken, and weaken in many aspects (Imperial officials and granaries are about to be or have been cut), but at the same time, they hardly give corresponding enhancement.
At present, no landmark or dynasty unit in China has practical value. FL is even less competitive than ordinary riders. The only bullet thrower with combat effectiveness (but very high cost): it is likely to be weakened in the future version, because someone in the forum has suggested that it will be directly reduced to useless according to the weakening style of the production team.
I don’t deny that China Unicom has some aspects that need to be weakened, but there are also many aspects that don’t need to be weakened. The reason why these aspects are weakened is purely because some players are not skilled and don’t want to think: if they are defeated by chinesciv in the game, they don’t reflect on tactics at the first time, but cry about “chineseop” in the forum, Mislead the production team to do a lot of unnecessary weakening.
Thanks for the support of FL. as for nerfs of imperial officials, the reply given by Microsoft staff is: This is the content of the next patch, which has been leaked in advance.
Yes, they can. They still demolish archers, idk what you’re doing.
You need to work on your economy. I produce grenadiers every as China and have won every game as China (about 6) since the patch. I can be producing grenadiers by 20 mins, better players are quicker than me.
Chinese literally get to build all of their landmarks, they all feel fine to me.
The only useless one is the great wall, barbican could use a buff too it’s basically a glorified tower.
No one wants symmetry, they want the asymmetry to work how it’s supposed to. Different play styles, equal strengths, that’s how this is supposed to work, a RTS game can not thrive if one or two civs vastly outperforms the others.
Sounds to me like you relied way too heavily on FL for your play style. In which case I’d say this patch is doing exactly what it was supposed to do, end that.
So breaking a wall and bumrushing landmarks with super cheap high damage fire lancers is skilled? You’re funny bro.
Especially for Fire spear cavalry can’t beat light armor long-range units.
BlakeRevnant mentioned
Please note that the description of this army is to deal with buildings and siege equipment, idk why you would define Fire spear as a front-line combat army, you need to carefully understand the game in the answer, otherwise you will cause a lot of misunderstanding to others.
We are talking about Zhuge, for crossbows, any country can make, but if every country has similar types of soldiers, the name of the country is just a code name. zhuge really should not hit heavy armor units, while zhuge is currently very balanced
equal strengths does not mean weakening the ability of certain types of soldiers.
I was responding to the part of his argument where he was complaining they did not have effect against light armored ranged units, which they do.
They also still do acceptable damage on buildings, their siege damage could be increased but I’d argue all combat units should do more damage to siege than villagers (currently they do not)
I was replying to him saying zhunge didn’t have good damage against armored units, although it literally says in the unit description they are weak to armored units. Giving China an age 2 crossbow would be OP, crossbows are good against armor and all civs can make them, hence why I suggested he make them to deal with heavy armor. Zhunge are primarily for saturation/dealing with spears in age 2.
That’s what I was saying, he was wanting to have zhunge good against armored units.
I never suggested this, I was replying to the OPs claims that China is unplayable after fire lancer nerfs, which is blatantly wrong and only shows he only ever used fire lancer landmark rush, a scrubs tactic.
Note: I never spoke on Imperial Officials bc I’m not sure what was done to them, but I’ve been playing china the past two days and doing just fine.
Meanwhile, I have a few other ideas (about other civilizations) to support your point.
China’s Landmark cannot be supervised, then China also becomes a cavalry civilization, and cavalry confrontation does not have enough combat advantage (please note that fire spear is not a frontline combat army, if someone classifies fire spear as frontline combat again, then he has a problem with his game understanding)
Mongolia again weakened its plunder gains. But Mongolia is a civilization that grows by plundering. In the original design, Mongolia was not even a civilization with a fourth stage, but rather a role through combat and offense.
Now, after constant weakening, the differences between civilizations are getting smaller and smaller, and the term nation has become nothing more than a code name. Because all the interesting and exciting methods of the past are gone. The patch to update the game through data is not the only way out for the design team, you should really understand the fun in the game.
Enhancing other civilizations and not making changes in certain civilizations is also one of the means of disguised nerfing that you can consider. At the same time, I hope the development team should widely analyze the social platforms in various countries, posting remarks in this forum is not comprehensive enough.
I fail how this forces China to go cav, they could go infantry with palace guards, still go siege with cannons and bees(but the extra health?, just build more) or you could dynasty up and go grenadiers which are wholly underrated.
I can’t speak on mongols I don’t play them.
Is fun for you fire lancer rush and bombard spam? Because that’s all this post is defending.
I play China, trust me it is still very viable, if not still my favorite civ.
They do check reddit and whatnot, I’m not sure which country you’re from but the fourms are really the most comprehensive place, you should encourage others in the other fourms you are referring to to come here and voice their opinions! If they don’t speak English that’s no problem, there is a translate feature for speakers of other languages to translate from your language to ours, no need to translate your posts before you post them