Yes, but Wootz Steel affects Urumi Swordsmen. An urumi would never be an effective weapon for penetrating armour, regardless of what kind of steel it’s made of.
Granted, there are unique techs that make less sense (e.g. El Dorado, Furor Celtics), but in a way that makes Wootz Steel worse. There’s the pretence of a physical explanation (i.e. these weapons can penetrate armour because they’re made of high-quality steel), but it is just a pretence - it doesn’t actually make physical sense.
Except that the part you didn’t quote won’t make them strong in melee.
Indeed, which is why I’ve continually advocated for them to have more usable stables basically from day 1 via BL and Husbandry - and honestly I think they could get free Husbandry and be fine. Gives them an accessible option to kill siege before they get a Castle (which stalls out most enemy siege pushes anyway). Now I have no problem with Urumi having some kind of anti-siege role (it already does well vs. rams and mangos), but have already stated my preference for a more comprehensive identity than that. Making it somewhat of an anti-siege/raiding unit is a viable proposition to be sure, but again, I don’t think the devs will go for it, and it doesn’t solve the issue of their stables being mostly unusable after Feudal. But of course, I understand you are very keen on having Urumi more or less fill a role similar to what other civs fill with (better) stable units.
Ya got me. What I do really like though is for people to awkwardly try to make every opinion based discussion about “being right,” or “correcting” others even (especially?) if they have to misrepresent, manufacture, or magnify some minor controversy in order to do so.
/s
Truly. IMO Wootz should be made cheaper and only affect barracks units. The splash damage actually makes sense for Urumi. Charge…not really, but I’ll give it a pass. But by the time you get to the third gimmick via their UT though, just too much concentrated power in a way that is it once unbelievable and surprisingly not that useful.
Cool new look BTW
Here’s how I would change the Urumi:
A) Remove the charge attack
B) Give them 1 / 1 armor
C) Make them attack continously (+ while moving) with an Area attack with radius .8 whilst the center of that attack is .2 tiles in front of the urumi. All units in that area receive full damage. (With this they ofc have no target selection anymore as they just attack at all time)
D) Change ROF to 3
E) Increase attack to 12 / 14 => D + E are tweaks to make wootz steel not too OP with them
F) Change Cost to 45 F, 35 G
I agree, both from the point of view gameplay and of things making sense.
It feels to me like they included the Urumi for rule-of-cool reasons and then didn’t know what to do with it gameplay-wise. It’s great for countering niche units that no civilisation relies on, though.
Thanks, I figured I’d spent too long using some weird default avatar and simultaneously feeling annoyed that there’s no Turtle Ship profile icon in game.
Yeah, I’m all on board with cool new units, even if they’re a little gimmicky and/or weren’t necessarily common battlefield weapons, and even though there are still plenty of mostly untapped weapons. Would like to see 2H Axe, mace, war club, glaive, quarterstaff, barbed spear or more regional/exotic weapons (tolwar, scramasax, shamshir, blowgun, fire lance, bola, 2H Macuahuitl). Back to Urumis, just having splash damage for free would already distinguish them from any other infantry unit, but obviously they’d still have to fight the uphill battle that is making any infantry UU useful without resorting to extreme gimmicks. The only other recently introduced infantry UU (Chakram) is also over the top, but in a way that is far more useful, with its ranged melee passthrough and high speed…and I almost forgot the anti-infantry bonus. It’s basically a Plumed Jaguar Throwing axeman.
Ah, I’d assumed the previous icon was chosen because IIRC nobody else had it. But yeah, I changed mine a month or so ago because I got tired of being one of many cartoon porcupines running around here.
While I think your suggestion is better than the current iteration, you might not realise it but you coincidentally almost carbon cloned the ghulam
Go look at the difference between your anti siege ghulam and the Hindu ghulam
The effective difference is the pass through dmg, anti archer bonus and 1 PA in imperial. Same hp, speed, damage
Obviously wootz makes siege ghulam a better melee fighter, but was still ironic to notice the similarity. I think with 7PA and eagle speed in imperial age, siege ghulam would need to be unaffected by wootz ,or else it will be almost impossible to counter by some civs, considering the cost sustainability, unlike Hindu ghulam
I’m not here to argue semantics. A whip should never have been the choice of weapon for a unit that hard counters heavily armoured units. Anyone else want to join this stupid argument and I’ll just ignore the comment.
Oh, I indeed realized that. I made that one day after DOI release while looking Ghulam, Eagle Warrior and Elite Eagle Warrior stats on AOE wiki. 11 11 11
Let’s be real my suggestion will never ever happen. At best they will get 1PA and that’s it.
I really hope it gets an overhaul. such a waste.
And I know it’s in the opposite direction, but current serjeants are actually quite different to on release. Maybe just maybe urumi get as much of a change, but for the better.
From the comment section of TheViper’s latest YouTube video.
I liked it. I wish militia line is more viable for them to compensate the lack of mobility. As I told before, I won’t mind removing Wootz Steel from militia line if it is necessary to make them balanced.
Yeah, and it shines a glaring spotlight on other infantry UUs that are weaker. It’s true that Japanese and Aztecs have other options for raiding, but their UUs are largely wasted by being relegated to niche roles and being too similar to the excellent swordsmen of both of those civs.
Maybe I’m missing something, but what’s the point of Wootz if it doesn’t affect champs? It’s already wasted on their useless stable units, and overkill on Urumis. Having it on halbs is nice, but at that point it’s basically just an expensive UT that will most often play out like a much more limited version of the Burmese infantry bonus.
I think extension of the bonus to blacksmith techs is interesting, but a lot of people will say this resembles the Bulgarian bonus too much. I’d prefer global changes that improve swordsman viability across the board, as this would solve a lot of the weakness of “infantry civs” in general (and ofc generally making infantry UUs more useful).
If Urumi stays as it is, I personally prefers Champion against ranged/pierce damage units and buildings. While Urumi stays good against melee. I’m targeting like this. BTW, this is only if Urumi stays like this. Only good against melee, not good at raiding and archers.
I wish I could show a similar thing, like Lithuanians without relic? Paladin is for ranged units but Leitis for melee units.
For example, Medical Corps changed to all elephant units and Militia line +20 HP, or maybe even +30HP. But Wootz steel is for Urumi, Halb and Stable units.
Change Wootz Steel gives +2 attack to melee units and +1 attack to ranged units, it will be more useful and logical than current bonus. And Remove last archer armor upgrade for compensation.
This just makes their infantry worse than Aztecs/Burmese and their Arbs possibly OP. Playing into the trope of “infantry” civs that go archers.
Hard pass on making their EAs squishy as well as slow.
Dravidians has Halberdier so they are better than Aztecs. As for Burmese, it is 50% cheaper upgrades vs +1 attack. 50% cheaper upgrades is better than +1 attack.
but EA will gain +1 attack, it is enough compensation. Also Husbandry should be added to Dravidians tech tree.
Combination of Garland Wars and Farimba? But +1 attack for archers feels so out of place.
I’m somewhat conflicted about Urumis. I feel like Wootz Steel maybe shouldn’t be affected by Urumis, but that might actually make the unit relatively useless. It’s clear the whip attack mows down melee units so in that use case the unit feels overpowered, but perhaps at least the AoE attack shouldn’t ignore armor?
I still think Dravidians are relatively fine as an Archer civ at least. Hera’s new ‘insane archer build order’ could have included Dravidians as well, since you get to place a free range. That should make them okay, no? On top of having very strong Elephant Archers.
Urumi is a very strong unit, but Dravidians are beyond garbage so we never see them in action. Dravidians won’t ever be used, unless the devs give them Knights.
Vale, como soy jugador de aoe 3 creo que puedo explicar un poco como es el urumi en el Aoe 3
El espadachin Urumi en el aoe 3 no es que tenga un ataque cargado directamente, sino que tiene un daño fijo (de 16 en 3ra y de 30 en imperial) con un ligero bonus contra infanteria pesada y caballeria ligera (x1,75 infanteria pesada, x2 contra caballeria ligera) con un daño en area de 1 asi que tomenlo como una pequeña catafracta de infanteria, esta etiquetado como una infanteria ligera a distancia, ¿que quiero decir con esto? que la caballeria pesada y artilleria deben contrarestarlo super facil, ya que es una unidad con resistencia a distancia y los ataques cuerpo a cuerpo son debastadores contra ellos.
¿que quiero decir con esto? que al igual que su homologo en el aoe 3 el espadachin urumi en el 2 deberia de ser contrarestado con ataques cuerpo a cuerpo muy altos, y este deberia tener bonus contra infanteria, pero que no sea efectivo contra la caballeria, se que no me haran caso, pero si al menos sacaron a una unidad del 3 minimo que le hagan similar xd, para que no sea un dolor de huevos acabar con el, aunque en el 3 son unidades fuertisimas que incluso regeneran vida cuando no estan activas, pero claro ahi solo estan limitados a envios de la metropoli.
I will take Eagles, Pikes, and All Infantry getting +4 as well as produced faster over Dravidians bonuses any day with your changes.
