And that’s kinda my thought is like, reverse that. Make them extremely cost effective but ALWAYS high pop. Even with the the card. Make it so they can be a fallback unit if you’re pushed off hunts in late age 2 or something. Make them have an identity. Not just “age 2 mercs”
1 Like
Could even boost their training speed late game. Insta outlaws at high pop could work.
I would add the note that this could possibly replace the useless emergency units for the african civs*
1 Like
Mexico has that with Bandidos (which have charged attack) and it doesnt feel balanced
Problem there is they only cost 2 pop late game I think. If Dance Hall improved training speed instead of reducing the pop cost all would be fine.
3-4 pop insta outlaws wouldn’t really be an issue.
I really enjoy my US outlaw deck, the fact they are cheap to upgrade and the way you can build your econ to purely focus on coin can allow a really funny fast industrial cowboy rush.
But I agree the main thing outlaw for every other civ (outside of the Africans) are kind supposed to be for is age 2 panic, so making them really cheap (but keeping the high pop cost) could be a really good change to make them have some use. Or otherwise, honestly, just don’t allow them for most civs lol.
it would definately not be fine. Merc Contractor got “fixed” to buff them in one PuP and that got instantly reverted as it was way too strong. Most outlaws fall off in Treaty which is good but the unit class in general is extremely good in any scenario that’s not age3 and even there they can be fine with certain civs.
I don’t like that “casual mechanics and competitive mechanics” thing. Everything should be viable in one way or another. You have to learn from SC where all units and mechanics are viable, and if they are not, rework from scratch if necessary.
Furthermore, outlaws are not very popular in casual games either.
2 Likes
Well, it’s not like they only duplicated stats either: Swiss Pikemen have more armor and triple the attack than their pikeman counterparts, so even if they are stronger versions, at least they have something different and special. The Black Rider for example, unlike the dragoon, had area damage and high melee armor.
Of course, it does not rule out that some are just stronger or weaker versions of the base ones, such as the Cannoneer, which have practically the majority of the stats and abilities of the Obus Gunners.
In general, rather than being very original copies or versions, I will always advocate for “Good historical representation”:
- If the mercenary to represent had no major characteristic than being “Cheap” and is cheap, that’s fine;
- If he had more armor than his normal counterpart and is represented like that, fine (Swiss Pikeman and Black Rider for example).
- In fact the Winged Polish Hussar may have the contradiction of counting as a native, although he acts as a mercenary of a noble house, he still has an “Area Charge Attack” that represents very well the power that the charge had of its historical simile.
As a curious fact, If we talk about “Only stronger versions” there is also the Order of the Dragon from AoE IV. I checked it in editor tests and practically all of their units are made so that 1 of them can defeat 2 bases counterpart if they started a fight at the same time, and there is a tie in the last attack. While those gilded versions have their unique traits with the unique technologies of that civ, in any case the joke of that civ is “Stronger versions of the base units”.
What you say about the “Swap” is true, that card does NOT change Uhlan shipments:
A few days ago when I wanted to try the new heroine of the month of April, I was surprised that the card doesn’t do what it says, but rather the letter “only refers to that shipment itself.” It should be writted "instead of receiving more uhlans, in this shipment you receive more black riders", the “In this shipment” part would at least not create confusion. Maybe I’ll suggest it in the Bugs section.
“That saddens me:”… So in the Vanilla version you couldn’t create more Black Riders as Germany, the place where the same mercenary originated. Well, that created ANOTHER problem with the concept of mercenaries “Countries that export mercenaries but don’t even have them as a base unit.”
Fortunately, in the Definitive Edition there is the card “Mercenary Camps”, which now allows you to produce Black Riders as Germany.
Following the thread of the topic, something similar should be done with other civs that export mercenaries:
-
SPAIN - Conquerors.- The conquistadors should be able to be unlocked in the mercenary barracks for a card, or else replace the dragons. At the moment, you can only summon them with one card, “Reconquista”, but only if you have lost soldiers and only 1 time.
-
PORTUGAL - Cannoneers - These should also be unlockable with a card. There is a letter that sends some, but it would be great if like the Germans, it unlocked them in the tavern as well.
Something curious is that because one can create conquistadors in the Jesuit position, it would count as a native instead of a mercenary (Another discussion of the topic: When is something mercenary, and when is it native, and when is it outlaw?). Well, the Germans also have a card that send an embassy to choose additional troops from European “Royal Houses” (“The European natives”), I don’t see the problem with them giving the same to the Spanish.
Black Riders doesnt have an attack area.
Most civs doesnt have light cavalry on age 2 so having the Reconquista is more a bonus than other thing. In age 3 Spanish can train dragoons that are just better.