Springald dmg changed to 20+60 instead of 60+20 (the + is bonus dmg vs Siege) - or 30+50.
Best change ever.
3 Likes
Finally walls are good and now they want to nerf them for the sake of quick 1v1s.
Game might be balanced in terms of number with these changes but you lose flavor. That little thing that keeps you interested in the game, the roots of player fantasy. These are things to take into account in game design.
Imo these are very bad changes. Buff the weak civs instead of bringing everyone down to a certain level. Itâs ok if some things feel overpowered as long as everyone has op tools. This is what makes civs interesting. Otherwise letâs just play AOE2 DE right?
2 Likes
This is exactly what I meant here: What is your opinion on siege in AOE4 - Age of Empires IV / IV - Discussion - Age of Empires Forum. Good to see that someone like him feels the same.
The Vipers suggestion would turn AOE4 into AOE2.
If I want AOE2 I can play that game.
What I like most about AOE4 is that differences between civs are huge. Rather 8 distinct civs than 40 carbon copies.
8 Likes
I do agree that buffing weak civs seems generally preferable rather than nerfing overpowered bonuses close to baseline. There are probably some instances (particularly for water balance) where specific nerfs may be required, but larger bonuses do create greater variety.
Balancing civilizations âon topâ would make AoE4 an AoE3, a game that lacks competitive.
P.S: And the civ design is assymetric, with Nerf or buffs.
Pros just donât like walls, they are so used to the useless walls of AOE2 that they want it back⊠smh
On various maps, for making Springald, castles and walls, the game gets too long and slow.
1 Like
If you balance civs by making each of them OP in one particular area, you will just force each civ to use the same strategy in every game. If they arenât using their one OP strat, then any opponent using their own civâs OP strat will autowin.
The way the game is designed, civs will always be differentiated by core mechanics. Changing flat modifiers doesnât reduce variety all that much: French were generic to begin with, having 20% cheaper tech instead of 30% is just making an OP boring modifier into a merely good-but-boring modifier. China will still have dynasties and officials even if their arti is nerfed and the building efficiency modifier is reduced.
IIRC Age 2 DE has a discord server for pro players and developers to talk about balance and other issues. This is peobably one of the main reasons DE is so well balanced. Pro players are the best experts on the game, even moreso than the developers: Devs make a living by creating the game, but pros make a living by unrivaled knowledge and feel for gameplay mechanics. Itâs the kind of expertise that can only be gained by playing the game competitively for a living. By necessity, they will understand balance better than the companyâs own balance team. I hope Relicâs balance team has the humility to make use of that expertise.
5 Likes
I like Vipers, but I donât like these suggestions. These suggestions seem to be a lazy and final solution-make all civilizations the same, like AOE2, so that professional gamers can easily play all races? I donât think this Itâs a great idea to make the game more fun.
The relics studio is brave enough to produce this kind of civilization that is difficult to balance but full of characteristics. We should not make them the same again. Let us try to see if we can find the proper balance between characteristics and balance. If all efforts fail, Then Vipersâ method will be the final solution.
6 Likes
Nerf stone walls? Really? On Age of Sieges 4? Defenses are kinda useless the 95% of the time. You waste time and resources on walls that you canât defend from canons without come out
In any case defense gameplay should be buffed. You should be able to move springals (after the Nerf vs no siege units) over the stone walls.of course with no extra buff ( not gain extra range, for example)
That way you can defend the walls but from trebs
2 Likes
I agree that a lot of these ideas would be a lazy way to fix then. Would make the game more competitive for sure but I love that in AoE IV the civs are powerful when I was reading through the tech tree I thought every civ I read through was overpowered, but if everyone is OP no-one is (not implying here that the game is perfectly balanced by any means).
But there are really good suggestions in there as well. And he said that he doesnât think they should just implement that whole list and call it a day, just some suggestions. I especially like the professional scouts change, there is so little you can do about scouts yoinking every deer on the map. Then you would have to invest in military if your opponent is trying to deny it, preventing you from just going FC with the safest food and wood sources available.
3 Likes
Most of the suggestions will make the game more bored, indeed. Was close to the say âonly exist one civâ
1 Like
Oh god please not, while it may feel cool when you use it the first few times but full walled games become even more of a boring drag where defenders advantage is so great that neither party is willing to commit.
I think that you should have both a castle and a imp tech that upgrades your stone walls and nerf feudal walls. Feudal walls are just too good. Before you even have rams to contest them your opponent is in castle and has springalds and can just defend the walls with that. Fully upgraded walls can maybe get some aoe2 style bonus building damage reduction to compensate but probably not needed.
Also you can repair walls so quickly a villager builds with like (3500/8) â 438 health per second. That is 3,5 bombard
balance or boring
who knows?
I mean to a certain extend more diverse CIVs can make for a less competitive game, lotâs of fun for most of the player base but at the very highest level it might be les fun for them.
2 Likes
In which head can it be said that civilizations will play the same or be the same with these changes proposed by TheViper when the base design of all these civilizations forces them to be played differently due to the Landmarks, unique units, unique bonuses and unique technologies?
The numeric balance means that there are different strategies and the same thing is not always done, balancing for OP bonus is what was done in AoE3 and there they see how it is competitively. A balance above would mean that there are VERY good or VERY bad Match UPs and there are very little different strategies.
I see that a lot of casual gamer who does not know about competitive play is giving his opinion here.
looks like viper hates Mongols, I think mongols are fine, they donât even have walls. None of the Mongol feedback he has given is needed.
2 Likes
Mongols are light years above other civs.
2 Likes