You have proven that a bunch of people are interested. You can’t extrapolate beyond that.
Also, again, it’s not that I don’t see the need for it. I’m mainly engaging with arguments that claim the developers are writing bad code, or that there are “no reasons” why the zoom can’t be extended. There are always reasons. You might not like them, but that doesn’t invalidate them.
If you don’t want to entertain that there could possibly be reasons why the zoom can’t be extended further, then that’s just dogma. There’s no arguing with that. No discussing that.
If that’s where you’re at, cool. Just say it, so people stop wasting their time trying the whole “discussing things on a forum” thing.
Its about visual clarity. Either they rework the attack ranges of units so it all fits on screen, or they increase zoom.
/thread
In 1v1 matchmaking we should be able to zoom out to see at least a quarter of the map if we so please. It’s just better for supervising tactics. What’s the point locking us down? Let players decide when a specific zoom is appropriate instead of making the smaller zoom unplayable and alienating half the player base wishing we could feel like we’re on a game more recent than the 800x600 resolution era.
If there aren’t technical issues with relic’s engine that prevent this game from providing the same zoom levels as all previous age games, then we should expect this fixed immediately.
If there are technical issues with the engine that prevent this game from providing the same zoom levels as all previous age games, then they should never have decided to use relic’s engine, and I trust that mistake will never again be made.
This is why I prefer the balance arguments, personally. But, like I’ve said more than a few times, I support people who want more zoom options. I just don’t support strawmen and baseless attacks on the devs. We are what we eat, to massacre to a proverbial.
I’m used to it (being the zoom) personally; I come from Relic games (my experience with AoE games isn’t small, but it certainly is historical). Which is why I’ll always laugh at “it’s not a real RTS game” or arguments like that. Relic make RTS games. Folks not liking them is relatively immaterial. When we get into the DNA of what an Age game is, then it gets understandably more contentious. To that end, more (or better) explanations from the developers on why certain things are why they are may help draw lines in the sand.
It might not stop discussions, but hey. I don’t mind discussions at all.
Zoom in observer mode is okay for sure. Its possible to give small room for zoom in/out, but for online ranked its not balanced to play against expirienced stratosphere camera player, significant camera differences are basicly cheats in any real competetive rts (sc/sc2/aoe2).
Okay, I’ve heard this one a few times, but theres a lot of reasons (which have already been stated by others) why this isnt an issue. I’ll restate them for you anyway.
Most pro players in AOE2 do not play at the full level of zoom, which pretty much definetivley proves theres no competitive advantage
It’s entireley possible as it is currently to see the whole map rapdily, simply have having hotkeys and cycling through them to see different points of the map, so extra zoom is not conferring any additional advantage it’s just a preference/usability thing. To this point, it would actually make the game more accesible to newer players by not forcing them to learn how to quickly cycle hotkeys
Since everyone has the same option to zoom out, there is no competitive advantage that is confered to anyone, because everyone has options to the exact same camera. If this were an issue, which as we have just discussed, it isnt: then it would be just as big an issue for people to be able to use multiple monitors, or use 4k resolution, however everyone accepts that these options are not “cheating” and confer minimal advantage, but make the visibility and user experience of the game much more enjoyable.
and another one… and another one…how many will continue to do same “argument” about “fairness”
Firstly, check aoe2 - they(pro) can play at stratosphere camera, but never do. (I wont explain why)
Secondly, what the difference between my 240Gz monitor, 30ping to server, RazorNaga mouse (which way more cheating than stratosphere camera.
Can suggest to play any TG game, let’s see on you after a few games. For some hilly maps u literally dont understand the positions. In 1vs1 u have time to explore the whole mapm but in TGs sometimes it’s total disaster.
I would prefer no “rating” or “competitiveness in ur understanding” but the zoom, so i can play comfortably.
PS 10k times said in aoe2 TGs were the most popular regime(twice more players), here TGs barely near 1vs1.
Don’t change the zoom. I like it fine, and you’ll never satisfy everyone with any change you could possibly make, so just tell us that the camera is not changing and hopefully we all move on with our lives.
If 107 people worldwide decide “omg, unplayable - uninstall!” so be it.
This kind of post describes the people that are coming to these forums just to complain and at the same time not be useful to anyone nor the development team by not providing any constructive feedback.
Also, your statement is just not true as they’re doing the opposite of what you are claiming they are doing.
Is my Inglish so bad? It was the appeal to Relics, not the statement.(mostly sarcasm )
What else do u want in discussion?
waiting for another half of the game in spring. If it wont fix problems, probably u wont see a lot of complains as people would calm down and leave the game. So bear with complains.
I will play with communities in lobbies, than ranked without zoom. Now “Quick search” takes 5+ mins to find TG.
But you can can keep to believe that everything is fine.
I’ve never said that everything is fine with this game, and most likely will never be as that’s simply not realistic, but the fact of the matter is that this game is miles ahead in terms of polish level, the smooth experience it provided from day one at release etc, something that’s very rare these days in video games.
What’s half about this game? At release you’ve got the following:
Eight unique & asymmetric civilizations that play out differently than the others
Four fleshed out campaigns that take you throughout history, with an amazing 4K documentary in between the levels for us history fans.
Not only do we have several campaigns to play through, they also have single player skirmishes, Art of War scenarios, Custom lobby’s, and unranked games via Quick Match.
Features coming in 2022:
Mod Support
Ranked games
New civilizations
Other content yet to be announced (most likely)
I can understand the wanting to play around with Mod Support & Ranked games but it’s not any game-breaking issues to have to wait a little while for it to come to the game.
Now let’s take a look at other games that has released prior to AoEIV to see the difference here in more detail on the level of polish and stuff like that:
BF2042: This game is a complete garbage that has less features than previous installments in it’s series, less guns, worse graphics (in some regards), worse performance, buggy as hell, vehicles being OP as hell and simply was taken out of the oven too early, like 1 year too early.
Warcraft 3 Reforged: They promised so much, features, new animations, better graphics, revamped UI, new cinematics and much more only to find out not only was it a buggy mess but also half of said promised things was cut out of the game at release, and most crazy thing was they were still marketing for the missing features a good amount of time after release before eventually changing it after the enormous backlash.
How can we compare AoEIV to some of the above mentioned games or other games as well when it’s not even close to the that level of disaster?
Does AoEIV still has bugs yet to be fixed? Absolutely! Are there balancing issues in the game currently? Absolutely! Can the game become even better? Absolutely!
In summary: AoeIV has has solid ground to continue building upon, it has it’s issues but with a great developer team that AoEIV has gotten & the infinite resources Microsoft can provide to Relic gives me hope (at least for now) that they will work these issues out in the future.
The one thing that I want to see more of them is more communication but they have started to do that, with the road-map & the twitch live streams were they talk about some of the issues concerning the players & what’s to come in the future. Hopefully they continue to improve on this, and not be afraid to share new information to us as sometimes they are way overly safe what not to tell us. Shouldn’t be so secretive about those type of things.
We all want this game to be as good as possible, but let’s be fair when providing constructive feedback, we don’t need to be over dramatic to report the issues that are in the game at this moment.
Let’s find out the worst developer and look up to him? Why just dont develop good game? Why these excuses with “the other done worse”? Who was the first, who broke the bottom?
If u lost ur army in the middle of the map without bind - u will never find it.(in fast manner, u will spend a lot of time to do it).
On higher zoom u want be able to “micro” units, but it’s needed to plan strategy (especially on big Team maps).
in aoe2 i always had time to check what army the teammate does. Here it’s the quest. U need a few screens to understand it. Maybe u never do the same “check” or u used to spend 40 sec to check teammate’s base. But It’s ur problem, and u can not give good TGs in aoe2 and destroy it in aoe4.
PS for ones who will scream “noob”. I’m top 1200 in TGs.
…but better create smurf to play “no attack for 30 mins”, because on lower ELO, u dont need hotkeys nor Zooom. Just play city builder.
I literally cannot understand how a person like this can actually exist
he is spending his time on a forum asking develops NOT to add an OPTION that a bunch of people are saying really affects their enjoyment of a beloved franchise game
he loses absolutely NOTHING if they add more zoom
we gain the ability to enjoy a game we badly want to enjoy
and yet he spent his time typing that out in the hopes that developers will read it and ignore the other part of the community who have been begging for this change for months.
unbelievable. genuinely.
and by the way since earlier in this thread we had the argument “its only a small minority of the community who want it!”
looks like the poll is yet another proof that a lot of people in the community want this change
No if the devs actually made the change, it means he has been defending the devs’ decision in a wrong way, i.e. he kept telling everyone the devs actually have a very good and solid (unknown) reason not to add more zoom, but it turns out they themselves do not really think so, which means there was no grand plan or genius design behind it.
That’s basically what happened when they added that useless tiny bit of extra zoom after the closed beta…
The rhetoric then changed to “they already did what you wanted, why are you so greedy?” (and the typical “it’s just a beta”…but I suppose we can ignore that one by now?). I guess enough time has passed to go back to the old narrative of a design decision set in stone “for a good reason”. And the circle continues…
Anyway, they had stats from survey, based on thats stats they did the change.
Considering the interview before and after they did not want to change zoom at all.
numbers are not on ur side.
PS ask any streamer to create survey, if “local representation” are not enough.
also there were bigger surveys with 300+ votes, probably in closed beta.
I don’t expect them to read, I expect you to read it.
And 22 people voting in a self-selecting poll doesn’t show any thing statistically.
As for my opinion about no more zoom, it’s a preference, I think it should be implemented in replays for better YouTube content, and would be fine for single player and custom games.
Also, if they decide to allow full map zoom and that’s how the game is, fine, I’m not the one threatening to take my ball and go home, saying it’s an awful decision and saying I can’t play as a result.
I just like the aesthetic of the current zoom level.
