Things they need nerf to italy

Italians have no particularly good standard military unit, it’s mostly an economic focused civ.

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True, but having a wide and flexible tech tree can be considered a military strength.

Papal bombards aren’t better than heavy cannons cost 8 pop,1 of speed, and no good damage or multiplayer. Maybe are the worst heavy artillery of the game. They aren’t cost-effective.

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yes, but is economy isn’t too good also.

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They are worse vs infantry, a bit better vs buildings and other units though and they have more health. I’d like them if they removed the stupid ability.

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Agree, with 7 pop and a little more speed they will be ok.

But it still have more base attack and HP, so not all stats are worse than an heavy cannon.

If I would change some italian artillery piece, that would be the galilean mortars, which aren’t bad as a concept, but too niche…

I mean, +10% attack isn’t bad, but the unit is basically the same… they should add a +10% speed, or the ability to target all units.

That ability can be useful actually. It buff your infantry mass and it can allow you to win artillery wars if used correctly, although it is a bit counter intuitive.

if they cost 7 pop the unit would be balanced, but no it costs 8 pop. Their low speed and low damage vs infantry made them useless in art war even with hard micro. also, they attract culverin shots. Heavy cannon is better in all senses.

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Constantly losing the heavy artillery I don’t think is the best way to win. In other words, you propose to sacrifice the papal bombards to save the other artillery, that is, to use it as a kind of cannon fodder. I think it would help if it were easy to masear them.

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But that’s the thing, you don’t lose the PB because of that ability.

The PB absorb just 25% of the damage, the other units take the remaining 75%, add up that if you have more PBs that is equally spread between them.

So if the PB don’t take direct hits, it shouldn’t die first, but it should prolong the survivability of all your artillery units.

The idea is that it’s better to have 5 cannons with just 5% HP than 4 with 20% HP (just to throw in there some numbers…).

Also, because of the bodyguard ability, the PB regenerate HP when idle

Don’t they only absorb damage from other artillery?

its the same ability as the lancers, so it will just absorb all damage that your other unit takes, its basically a HP battery

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No, it’s absorb damage from all units.

It’s the other papal units that absorb from all units with the exception of artillery ones.

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The papal bombard receives a direct impact always by his low speed, culverins move faster. Is really difficult to save it, having more than one is really difficult. is not feasible, and is 8 pop unit,
It’s not really worth using them if you’re only going to spend 8 pop for a unit whose main use is to give artillery a little more life.

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But if you culvs shot at the enemy culvs he is losing on the opportunity of winning the culv war.

Also, you can leave the PB on limber in such case, and just use its ability behind the culvs.

You can ship 2 and another 3 with the papal company, and then you have 1 inf shipment, I don’t have particularly problems on having PBs.

The unit still have a ton of attack, it can demolish infantry and buildings and regenerate HP, on top of extending the durability of all units around it.

Overall it’s still an heavy cannon, just slower…

Papal Bombard absorbs damage incurred by other artillery units, while Papal Guard, Lancer and Zouave absorb damage taken from other cavalry and infantry units. There is a small circle that appears under units in the range of the deflection ability that shows you that a Papal unit is protecting them, I don’t know if you already noticed it.

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Actually I think the more accurate way to say it is that the bombards only protects other artillery, atleast from the circle description.

the other units seems to protect everything but artillery.

that does change how its used a bit but that is kinda powerful since it means Italian culvs which are already royal guard will always win the artillery duels.

in treaty normally uses one inf papal bombard, well not now because they suck.

Omg, i know how art war it works. Is an intensive culv war in treaty losing this is ■■■■ of unit is easily

This attack can’t demolish infantry as an ottoman bombard or heavy cannon, against infantry is the same that horse artillery which is faster and costs only 6 pop.

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I feel like most of the people who shout Italy OP needs a nerf have never actually played the civ…

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agreed. Italy isn’t easy to play and really they’re overpowered only if you just let them boom freely without applying pressure, but that’s true for so many other civs…
Italy is basically perfect A tier right now