This game is full of suck right now

I wouldn’t say it’s broken because of the FI, I watched the number 1 ranked player lose doing the FI so for lower skilled players it’s certainly beatable. It’s only really the 9 soldados +2 falc shipment that’s ridiculously good. None of the units they receive are upgraded either, they’re basic age 2 soldados and if you’ve scouted the FI then you should be in fortress, so you can train a culv and ship skirms to deal with it.

A soldado can’t beat 2 regular basic musketeers, let alone triple carded redcoats, my point was that 1 soldado does not equal 2 musketeers, 2 regular musk are stronger and will win despite them having the same population. Soldados are pop inefficient units.
Despite being inefficient, they have very few upgrades the only 1 being grenade launcher which at most gives the musketeer some late game utility, they still get shredded and kited by skirmishers and destroyed by artillery, the unit is very far from op.

Regulars might be more expensive but they have more range which matters significantly when you have a mass because the second or third line of regulars can be firing when a normal musk may not be.

Mexico do have those us style shipments, but there more of an option yes than a necessity, I’d put cuirassiers in for example if I didn’t want to use as many cav upgrades, I’d just use cav combat then rather than cav combat, caballeros and possibly the age 4 ability tech for chinacos.

I main USA and I wouldn’t say mexico are an improved version, USA is a great and very unique civ with many options. USA can also play aggressive age 2 with spanish immigrants and forward rax, standard FF with regulars and gatlings, Marine FF, California FI. All great strats.

Unbeatable factions never ever appeared in the history of RTS. If beatable=fine then balancing should be thrown away from the table.

Ah yes. Longer range is super useful when amassed. Grenade launcher (which also has longer range) is one pathetic small upgrade (which obviously is not useful when amassed).
BTW, they can also get a AOE normal ranged attack from incendiary grenades (on muskets, yes). That’s not a huge investment.

While most other civs do not have those options at all :slight_smile:
They are options not necessities because other options are even stronger.

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Your not comparing equal things, the regulars extra range is as standard from age 2, it’s completely different from an age 4 card. Most of my games never even get to age 4 so if the soldado only becomes good after sending that card then it’s quite useless and it should be good for an age 4 card it’s an equivalent 1600 resource investment or a factory. Grenade launcher itself is a decent card anyway especially since grenadiers got their RR and damage vs cav buffed.
The soldados even with grenade launcher get destroyed by their counters so I don’t see any issue whatsoever, it’s not like you send that card and they become invincible. If you send your mass of heavy infantry into a bunch of soldados with that card then that’s a silly decision and you deserve to get destroyed. Up until age 4 they’re underwhelming at best, hard to mass and require a ton of houses to support.

You can’t blame the current devs for the original 15 year old civs having fewer options, they’re doing good work and starting to go back and change a few things on the old civs 1 at a time as with aztec and next will be haud/lakota, if they completely redo the old civs people would be up in arms so they work creatively with what they can which are the new civs they themselves are designing.
Mexico and the usa may have tons of options and strategies but most of them are just fun options and not really super viable, the civs will have a few strong build orders just the same as the old civs do.

And most games do not reach a stage where the number of units is so large that the 2 additional range really matters.
And grenadiers do not have a huge melee bonus against cavalry.

Give me a unit that does not get destroyed by its counters. Maybe the old caroleans, and they get nerfed. Does that mean all units are perfectly fine now?

Or, by the exact same logic, if you march soldados into a bunch of counters, you make a silly decision and deserve to get destroyed. So soldados actually have no weakness. Does any unit have any weakness then?

BTW I remember soldados are not pop efficient and get destroyed by muskets a few replies ago?

You keep repeating things like “because they have a counter they are fine” “because they are still beatable they are fine”. In that case almost every unit in every RTS is perfectly balanced because they all have counters and are beatable.

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Especially when many of the “new options” (which would eventually never be used because of a few strongest builds) are straight-up improvements of “old civ” equivalences. Yes of course.

Imagine “people” being perfectly fine with new civs getting every unit they need, and also units and techs from “old civs”, and improved versions of “old civ” mechanics, many of which are not considered because they already have a very strong basic builds.
BUT they will be up in arms if the “old civs” get a few more options like more mercenary cards, some new gimmicks, or a more viable livestock (which is not considered because it is so bad).

Say Mexico can choose to buff almost all its unique units to insanity.
But would people get up in arms if Portuguese can also buff casadors to insanity (with 5 cards maybe)? I suppose it’s perfectly fine because “you won’t always be able to send all cards and they stil have a counter”?

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I have no idea what you’re actually trying to argue lol

Soldados are a 2 pop musk that’s worse than 2 regular musks, they’re not great units. By the time you send grenade launchers it’s mostly skirms, goons and artillery. An age 4 card that makes a bad musk counter heavy infantry a bit more is neither here nor there. It’s better just to make artillery than send that card, at least artillery will help vs the skirms.

The regulars +2 range is quite relevant, out ranging regular muskets and when combined with an early springfield armory for the infantry speed tech they can make good use out of it, it may not be something you always notice but there’s many, many times in which they fire when a normal musket wouldn’t, whether that be in a large mass or just kiting back with 5 of them.

If you have any unit and march it into it’s counters you will lose and that’s what should happen, units that are generally op are usually considered so because what should counter them actually doesn’t, so yes things like caroleans with svea because they could beat skirms or ERK’s because they can stand and fight skirms.
The grenade launcher card just makes them counter heavy infantry in addition to cavalry, so you adapt and avoid placing your heavy infantry within range it’s simple. Not that there is much heavy infantry used late game in age 4 and it’d usually be a few halbs or maybe dopps which get beat by musks anyway, it’s a generally useless card to send.

Many original civs can also significantly boost their units stats so not sure why you’re even bringing that up, ports in prticular have extremely strong gunpowder units with all cards sent and incredibly strong dragoons, 3 cards for each I think and all combat cards, same as brit, 3 cav cards and 3 musk cards. Mexico have 1 combat card for salteadores in age 3(age 2 card is just 2 extra range which still leaves them lower range than a skirm), 1 card for insurgentes, 1 card for dragoons. Only unit that can be substancially buffed is the chinaco, I’d guess it’s still probably weaker than a normal lancer with 2 cards. Mexico do have a few gimicky cards where you transform all your units and get 1 extra range etc but very unlikely to ever be used.

anyway good discussion but I’m off so we’ll agree to disagree, good night.

I can see your point.
Say one civ has 5 A-tier builds and 10 C-tier builds.
The other has 10 A-tier builds ans 5 B-tier builds.
This can be pretty balanced if you only need 5 A-tier builds to adapt to different situation. You think it’s fine in that way.

But I think it’s still a problem, because it makes the former much more boring.

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Actually, Mexico seems very weak outside of the FI timing. They do have good units, but are expensive, train slowly and thus are very difficult to mass. I think FI was just an oversight on the devs behalf.

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Outside Of this there isn’t a problem. Outside of that there is no problem.

Well that pretty much says everyone agrees there is an obvious problem. Even the guy defending it agrees.

Everything else after that just seems like trolling to me.

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That’s pretty deep man. Anyway, new civs are always going to be hit and miss for while, the devs are listening, we just need to provide constructive feedback.

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Lmao, had to chuckle. Agreed 100%.

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I am currently playing with Mexico, I feel like I am a lammer and a rat boy using the most OP strat FI ever seen.

Mexico has more variety and versatility than any civ, and many viable shipments. (cries in Portugal, Holland or Haudenousane that have a null variety of shipments).

You can rush, turtle, boom, FF, FI, whatever.

Good eco, fast times, strong units, natives, outlaws, units enabled in forts, TC fire, infinite variety of tricks …

His FI is practically unstoppable.

It has incredibly OP’s shipments:

Age 1

  • 2 vills + 1 hacienda (800 res)

  • Independent moviments

  • EQ piñatas (in 4vs4 …)

  • Barbacue (maps with cattle)

  • Iturbide Palace (turtle, defense again rush)

  • Cathedral (400 res + advantatges)

  • 1 farm (600 res haha)

  • Shovel (with this …)

Age 2

  • 12 insurgents (780res)

  • 5 highwaymen (650res)

Age 3

  • 6 soldiers (1040 res)

  • 8 highwaymen (1040 res)

  • Guerrilla tactics (stealth fast + hp + attack … omg)

Age 4

  • 9 soldiers + 2 falconets (2530res) absolutely OP

  • 8 dragoons + 1 culv (1940res)

  • 33 insurgents (2,145 res)

  • 8 chinacos + 1 mortar (2000res) "and next to him, to completely ridicule the situation, there is a shipment of 8 chinacos (1600 res) which is the balanced and correct shipment according to the standard.

  • 17 fish boats LOL

  • Reservists (now your pikes shoot haha)

  • Firearms restored (and now the jewel in the crown, transform your super musk into grenadiers, destroy the inf and art that countered you, and GG!)

Backed by other great shipments … 2 real canons, 2 factories, 1600w and c, 2 tc’s, 2culvs + 2 mortars, 15 lancers …

The chinacos are very useful and also effective vs cav, your improved highwaymen with everything are the best skirm, cob the stealth of haud and you can transform them into voltigeurs or cruzoebs even more OP. And the soldiers, with everything, and with grenade launchers … they are unstoppable. They kill their counters skirms (in open anti artillery formation), even artillery.

Soldiers + cannons is the most OP strat actually.

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Well you’ve convinced me.

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Well said, all of it! It’s a broken civ, S+ tier right next to Inca at the moment.

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I think that all this is good in principle, but one thing is many strategies, and another thing is that each of them is too strong.

I actually like the way it is designed, but its options should expand as it evolves, and not from minute 1.

what is incredible is that it is so obvious, just like the mechanics of the revo it is obvious that there is something to review, like it’s simple but the revo does not make you switch to the next age automatically lol, everythings is obvious in fact lol
( btw why we can making batch of 10 insurgente bruh, need a reason its so rdm )

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I think devs should allow people who preorder new civs to play them on PUP. This way, blatantly OP strategies can be marked faster. They can keep slightly OP things to drive sales, but not ridiculous stuff like FI and Hausa rush (to name a few).

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Insurgent is weak like strelet, the only reason…

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But has 13 siege damage… meanwhile strelets have 7 and rodeleros (insurgent is a weak version of) only have 10…

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Lo de 2 aldeanos y una hacienda te creo, deberían quitarle un aldeano por lo menos, lo de movimientos independientes no se, pero moverla a la 2 edad no estaría mal pero aun así es un movimiento arriesgado por eso en edad 1 no me parece tan descabellado, lo de piñatas solo en equipo y en una situación muy concreta de 4vs4 (necesita algo de revisión en ese caso, lo de la carta barbacoa… no se amigo ahí ya simplemente asegúrate de que el mexicano no obtenga ganado no me seas vago xd, la carta de catedral… pues mal no la veo, con a excepción de las ventajas, la carta de finca no esta mal, ya que no da aldeanos extras, pala la tienen todas las civs en primera edad no me jodas.

12 insurgentes? enserio colega? son peores que un piquero tienes mucha menos vida y un par de tiros de guerrilleros y se van a tomar por culo xd, lo de 5 guerrilleros es pensable, pero nadie dice nada de los 5 cosacos que son 750 en recursos

6 soldados, es un envió regular de 1000 de recursos en edad 3 y no me jodas 40 de comida no cambia nada, en el caso de los bandoleros lo mismo, en la carta tácticas de guerrilla ahí no digo nada si que esta fuerte.

que tiene de op enviarse 9 soldados y 2 falconetes? un par de culebrinas y guerrilleros y se acabo colega xd, además la carta de 2 falconetes y 2 culebrinas de los suecos hacen como 2000 de recursos, así que los 9 dragones y 1 culebrina andan por ahí, 33 insurgentes solo veteranos, ya ha esas alturas solo saldrán de la metrópolis a morir, vuelvo a decir las 2 culebrinas y 2 falconetes hacen 2000 de recursos y nadie dijo nada, y no 50 de recursos más no significan nada, los de los 8 chinacos solos… están bien, enserio te quejas por la carta de reservistas? LOL! es literal una carta casi inútil, en primer lugar los insurgentes tienen como 120 de vida y con esa carta su daños a distancia es de 19 con un rango de 10… 10! joder menos que un mosquetero, es una carta que no cambia en nada y ya si tienes guerrilleros vigías esos tipos no duraran nada, lo de los barcos de pesca no la he visto, pero joder se ve fuerte pero reitero no es op un nerf para esa carta seria quitar 1 o 2 pesqueros, la carta de 8 carretones de colono tiene el mismo costo que esa y nadie dice nada y que decir de la carta de 10 aldeanos infinitos hausa o la de 10 courer des bois, la carta de armas de fuego restauradas si esta un poco rara que los vuelva morteros, pero yo no veo que los vuelva op les hace combatir mejor contra infanteria pesada pero la guerrilla lo masacra muy fácil, además cuesta 90 de comida y 80 de oro y 2 de población vale en oro lo mismo que casi 4 mosqueteros y en comida casi lo mismo que un jenízaro (post buffeen al jenízaro lo necesita)

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