This goes to the Devs - Jean Darc

She’s going to get the heal off no matter what, and it is most effective if you focus her (since she has a huge hp pool at that point). Once she is level 3, frankly you should almost never be attacking Jeanne herself, she is way too tanky for any ranged unit to damage. Just put your ranged units on staggered formation so that she doesn’t just ruin them with aoe damage. Better to focus your knights first, it takes quite awhile for Jeanne to get to lvl 4 so that’s not a huge worry.

Jeanne level 2 is pretty weak to ranged units, frankly weak in general but lvl 3 onwards, ranged unit basically tickle her. The biggest problem with Jeanne is her level 3 is just too strong. Something about her level 3 needs to be nerfed (imo she should get like a level 2.5) Her aoe damage is doubled, she gains 3 MAA summons, she takes half ranged damage and is insanely tanky to the point attacking her at all is not worth it unless you massively outnumber her.

To beat Jeanne, you either need to get to castle before she is level 3 or get enough archers to just 1-2 shot her in feudal (around 30+ archers, less if you have zhuge nu/javs/longbows) so that she dies at the start of fights without doing anything.

I’ve already said I’m terrible, but that doesn’t mean I can’t repeat advice.

The variant isn’t going to be deleted. Jeanne’s hero unit isn’t going to be removed. The sooner you accept this, the better your potential counterplay gets. She’s an intentional part of the game and you still need to play her variant as an RTS.

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I would recommend to just not play the game until something is done about the new civs. There are plenty of other great games with teams that actually know what the community wants or at least creates things that don’t clash with the integrity of the existing IP. Whichever team was left with Age IV after the original dev team moved on to other projects clearly has no idea what made Age engaging or special.

I’ve played an absurd amount of this game the last few seasons and got pretty decent (Diamond level) and have genuinely not enjoyed it at all since the update. They lost the plot, I’m frankly just out until something changes.

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Yes, you can defeat her when she is a villager…

Yes, I haven’t played it since January, although I’m paying attention to the seasons and I wanted to return with the new DLC, but I’m waiting for them to balance the variants…

That civilization is stronger than normal and I see it as somewhat oppressive against many types of players. Jean needs to be adjusted better.

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I would keep the unit summons as it is no different from ottomans. And i think it works fine. The healing could also be fine by itself if we remove that next thing →

What needs to be removed is the AOE damage, and maybe remove the insane ranged damage reduction at level 3.

Thematically it also makes a lot of sense, as real JD was very religious (healing in the game) and was good at rallying army to her cause (summon units). But she was definitely not a fighter (remove ranged armor, remove aoe damage).

I didn’t expect this day would come that you and me unconditionally agree on something about aoe4.

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Jean D’Arc bot only breaks historical accuracy, but also AOE game play rules, also why Jean D’Arc is the only powerful medieval hero? Why other civadon’t have heroes ? Will William Wallace be more powerful that Jean D’Arc ?
She feels so forced into the game…

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Skirmish mode by definition is not supposed to be historical accurate. Also, Jeanne isn’t really a new concept as you already have the hero concept more or less with Explorers in AoE 3, obviously without levels.

If we were to start commenting solely on the balance of the game, we would probably agree on more things than you think.

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What I believe is that JD’s problem isn’t OP nor weak. The true problem is its design cause a complete disaster.

The result is that you can’t fight in feudal when facing JD. All you can do is hide in your base and tremble to upgrade your age, and for the most players, defense is far more difficult than attack.
Please don’t tell me that’s the right way to counter JD or JD is not OP if we learn how to counter it. The key point is JD has ruin the fun of this game. Almost every civ will become China or Abbasid doormat when opponent choose JD. Is this what Devs wanna see?

The reason why JD and ZXL are oppressive is similar, the new civ effectively solve the shortcoming of the old civ.
French will never afraid spearmen after they have JD’s aoe, and Chinese’s Zhuge Nu can attack far more earlier after they can train Zhuge Nu without Song Dynasty.
Then we can see the difference of winrate and pickrate between old and new French or China is extremely significant.

Is Royal Knight or Zhuge Nu too OP?
No, these two unit have its obvious weakness. But they will be very oppressive after combine with JD or IO perfectly.

So I believe Devs should adjust the design of these two new civs, otherwise you might cause the old French or China totally unplayable if you simply nerf JD or ZXL.

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It’s not that you can’t fight her at all, it’s just that you can’t trade a lot of units, and you have to be really careful fighting before you have a critical mass of a ranged unit. Level 2 Jeanne only has 2 ranged armor, so you can actually kill her once you’ve massed archers.

Alternatively a strong counterplay is to harrass her eco (gold mainly). Lvl 2 Jeanne is a slow unit, and French are still very gold reliant, so as long as you are fighting away from Jeanne, everything is fine.

The problem never lies solely with Joan of Arc, but lies in the combination of Joan of Arc and Royal Kights, this combination is really too oppressive to most of player especially in solo.

And I confirm that this civ has become too dependent on hero. If you suppress your opponent and the hero reaches level 3, you must have gained a huge advantage, otherwise you will suffer strong counterattack.

What I hope to see is to reduce the aggressiveness of this civ and give it some non hero compensation which can make this civ develop smoother. At least don’t put most of key point in feudal. That’s why I said we should consider adjust its design but not simply nerf it.

I played the new expa and was happy with the changes , bizantines and japanese are great, but just can’t accept Jean D arc, the femenist hero pushed by agenda that make 0 sense in age of empires game, uninstalled and moved to better RTS.

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Just turn the hero to something like the Khan, a support unit.

Right now the whole power of the civ is a unit, if you leave the hero unused in a corner, they are just a decaffeinated version of french that for sure would be by far worse than french.

The heal and the summon units skills are fine, but she must be turned into a support unit to support the jeanne d’arc army, not be the main focus of a whole civilization. I think also she must upgrade per age, as Khan does, so getting fights in feudal directly doesn’t give jeanne d’arc the victory, that it is the main reason why she has by far the better win rate a civilization has ever reached in the game.

This way people won’t be forced to just keep in their bases and try to reach castle age as soon as possible because she won’t be at level 3 until castle age is reached by her.

Maybe, maintain the xp system, but don’t let Jeanne get into the next level until the age requirement is reached.

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Famously, Joan of Arc has never featured in an AoE game before. But you go ahead inserting your politics into it.

cough aoe2 has full campaign centered on her and her as a hero in it cough, hell even burgundian campaign has her play a role, no bullshitting please

if anything, aoe4 does worse job representing her, way fewer campaign scenarios, and this basically DOWIII kind of civ that everyone sees is flawed by design, i do agree locking leveling up behind age up is justified, that way the opponent at least has multiple choices instead of only 1

also i noticed another concerning pattern, what relic does with balance is as follows, instead of correcting that one broken strat each civ has they go and nerf everything about the civ which leaves that prior op strat as the only viable one, this isn’t what balancing is

Yeah, that’s exactly my point :joy:

I don’t really have a comment about balance (said what little I can already), but Tsuda didn’t either! They preferred to insert their political views on what they think feminism is instead.

given the implementation of joan of arc in this case, i wouldn’t be so quick in deducing there’s no agenda behind the scenes, especially in this day and age
my point being, in aoe2, she was just another hero with story focused on her, here she’s the only persona thats getting such treatment, where’s genhis khan for mongols etc. thats what more likely than not rubs people the wrong way, the clear agendas are all too common nowadays

Oh, the point isn’t an “agenda”. The point is inserting politics. Which I guess is the same thing, but folks tend to have a blind spot for their own. “agenda” carries baggage, yeah?

So if a player can do it, why can’t the devs? Consciously or unconsciously? I’m very, very sure that people who dislike feminism in games (alleged or real) are perfectly fine with other kinds of politics in the games they play.

Just as I’m sure that trying to make something completely apolitical would ultimately please nobody in an attempt to chase everyone.

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