First I want to state that we already had several Discussion on Eagles but also on potentially better fitting variants of “scout replacement” Infantry units in the Forum. Most frequently the “Falcon Warrior” was named.
Also there are several Civilsation Concepts in this Forum, possibly most of them in the Hub . But most likely not all of them.
This topic itself is referencing mostly to the latest two Videos of Admiral Wololo on Youtube about a potential American Expansion upcoming. Here are the links:
Though we could discuss the whole civs I want here to focus only on the Eagles and potential alternatives because this topic alone is actually delicate enough for a whole thread.
There was always the critique that Eagles were actually unique to Aztecs. So there are a lot of Civs too far from their territory which shouldn’t have them. It’s even questionable if it would fit the Mayas and Incas.
So my idea is: Keep the Eagles to three civs that are possibly most fitting for but give all others a different one that is better fitting. Possibly the Falcon Warrior.
The design critique on the Eagles is that they are too generalist and have almost no weaknesses. Or these weaknesses then are too easy too counter themselves. Also some civs lacking Knights can get in serious trouble in the midgame against the Eagle Spam.
This However should be able too address with a simple tweak. Units that already have good Attack Bonusses against Cavalry could now get some Bonus against Shock Infantry aswell. Ofc not as much as Against Cavalry, but enough to make them a considerable option against all-in Eagle plays. I could even consider Eagles getting a small amount of Shock Infantry armor to distinct them from the other shock Infantry units.
Then ofc there is the issue that eagles cost Gold. Are actually one of the most Gold Intensive options in the game. This is why the new unit should be considered to be a “trash unit”. This would allow to basically 1:1 replace the Scout line for these civs as (with the mentioned Bonus damages for eg Spearmen) the traditional trash Triangle would be maintained. Ofc this would have some general design Implications for the Falcon Warriors.
They could start with basically the same stats as a Scout, also receiving a shadow upgrade in Feudal. Being Cheaper in Food cost would make them easier to get out but without Bloodlines would scale way worse. Opposed to the Eagles the Falcons wouldn’t get an Attack Bonus vs Cavalry, but be the way faster units in the early game. Later on the Falcons would Scale way worse, potentially not even getting an Imp upgrade.
The civs getting Falcons then would ofc need some Bonusses in the midgame compensating missing both Knights and Eagles. But recent Additions in the game showcased that is possible.
For the 3 remaining Eagle civs there are potential Ideas to “fix” the induced lategame issues with this unit. A) One of them could get access to light cavalry (see Admirals Video) B) One could get a trash Eagle UT (actually would fit Mayans instead of El Dorado. Ofc with removing either last Armor or the Elite Eagle upgrade) C) Giving a special Bonus to the civ. Aztecs EG could get an increasing HP Bonus for Eagles (5 in Feudal, 10 in Castle, 20 HP in Imp). Then Aztecs would get a new additional Identity as “the lategame Eagle civ” from the Mayans. But not to that extend as El Dorado currently is.
If this DLC does happen, I hope it comes with a new architecture set. There’s too many overused sets by now.
I’d also like the current Mesoamerican set to be recolored. The current one is based on abandoned buildings, they would have been much more colorful when in use (I’m also not a fan of them being covered in plants like it’s being reclaimed by nature).
As one of the most avid meso civ enthusiasts and civ crafters of all crafting, Im okay with eagles being a generic no cav scout replacement. The way 2h swords are more universal than they really are
What is a “Falcon Warrior”? I Googled it and it seems to be a pipelaying ship…
If you interpret the Eagle Warrior as exclusively representing the rank in the Aztec military that is commonly translated into English as “Eagle Warrior”, then yes. If you interpret it more broadly then probably not. A broader interpretation seems to me more in line with the rest of game design (in which we have, for example, Koreans training hussars).
Given how long you are active in the Forum and how frequently that name has been used here it’s a bit weird you seem to have never heard that name before.
It was quite commonly used in several proposals for new alternative scout Infantry units.
It’s actually not MY personal interpretation. I just heard that from time to time from various sources including most of the commonly known content creators.
I also think (as said before) that this would be an interesting concept for an eagle civ to not get that upgrade but instead a UT that makes Eagles a trash unit in latgame.
The point is that IF that expansion comes I would like to give some feedback from the community to the devs what the community hopes for regarding the scout units for these civs.
I too have only herd this term once and it was to identify some kinda north american native warrior.If the requirement is to give it a more generic name why not just use tibal scout warrior elite warrior?
I have seen it very commonly in the Civs Concept ideas I read for the HUB I linked in the opening post.
But not only there. There are even Threads open just for the Falcon Scout (/Warriors).
However I’m not fixed to that name. I only use it because I’ve seen it used commonly - and I don’t need it to be named Falcon if there are other possible names for it. As I said, it’s NOT my name, I only use it because it was commonly used by others.
I don’t remember seeing the name, but that’s not really what I meant. Is there some historical type of warrior/soldier that is referred to by that name?
Even if it’s not a historical term, I think the name “falcon warrior” would do a good job of setting expectations for what the unit would be like (to someone who is already familiar with eagle warriors in game), so maybe it’s a good name regardless.
I don’t know if it’s to anyone familiar , but a nice fan-made expansion exists and has generally good concepts. It’s called American World. It includes several South American civilizations, including one European civilization ( which, honestly, we don’t really need ) the Dutch. I also like my idea of the Mapuche using horses or being a heavily gunpowder-focused civilization; it’s a concept I support. It’s a nice twist, considering it’s a Native American civ.
Yes, like in AoE 3 where heavy infantry has a bonus against shock infantry, and shock infantry beats light infantry.
Yes, ultimately, you could include Andean architecture for the Andean civilizations (Inca, Chimu) and leave the standard Mesoamerican architecture for the Aztecs, Mayans, and any new Mesoamerican civilizations added in future DLCs…
Yes, with the Burgundians already in the game, the Dutch are somewhat repetitive, plus they’re from a later period, having gained independence in 1581, which is why they appear and fit better in AoE 3…
It’s unlikely they’ll have cavalry or gunpowder, at least in Age of Empires 2 timeline, since that came much later in the 18th century… I, at least, always thought the Mapuche would fit better in Age of Empires 3 (in Age of Empires 3 it would be much easier, since they would just be a reskin of the Lakota and would cover about 330 years, from 1553 to 1883), because otherwise in Age of Empires 2 you have to think too hard to include them for only 45 years (1553-1598)… at most, you could give them an imperial crown that allows them to create cavalry, but that would be stretching it too far…
Yes, but you have to keep in mind that some civs are specifically designed with that in mind as well. Fir example, you have the Turks, who clearly depict the later Ottomans, with the Janissary unique unit and the light cavalry and cavarly archer bonus representing their early nomadic way of combat. I don’t see an issue designing the Mapuche as an exception.
