Thoughts on this hypothetical bonus

Someone on reddit proposed a bonus that i and others think is absolutely busted, but they are defending hardcore so tell me your thoughts on this.

Archers +1/3/5 attack in feudal/castle/imp
No access to xbows or arbs.

Clearly this comes with lacking 1 extra range and some hp (and longer training time) but at the end of the day you have feudal archers with 13 attack. For a frame of reference that means they kill PALADINS in 30 shots instead of 60.


Now that’s an interesting one… did they happen to mention exactly how many upgrades these hypothetical uber-archers would have in their design? If they have all the upgrades, yeah, that’s pretty broken, since then they’d be getting hefty upgrades in both attacks and defenses on top of the already prevalent bonus. They’d have to hamstring the bonuses these archers get in order to balance them out, like -bracer/ -last archer armor, or something to the effect of that imo.

So without even fletcher they have the damage output of a castle age fu Xbow. That’s scary power spike even if it’s not a range spike. Having enough damage to deal triple vs mangos is also horrifying. I’m not sure how to feel. Thumb ring? I’m really unsure and I like creativity but who will miss 5 Hp if you do double damage vs full armor knights?

The only upgrades they lacked were xbow and arb

The only thing they lacked was xbow and arb. So in castle age 9 damage. Or 5 damage a shot to a knight. Absolutely busted.


Then yeah, broken af. I’d honestly take thumb ring and bracer away here, along with last archer armor. That way, they turn into slightly less powerful glass cannon versions of themselves that can miss arambai-style. In that way, I’d consider it a bit more fair.

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Yes the spike is too great you’re giving up too little to do 2 to 3x vs knights ESkirms, Eaglesand mangos. Absolute hard pass!

Unless this is their only civ bonus, then it’s just obviously too much, and even then it probably still is.

+1 in Feudal with no drawback is already very strong, and possibly too strong. Basically doing +100% damage to skirms and +50% to scouts probably gives them the strongest archer rush potential. There’s a reason generic infantry and cav have gotten extra attack, but archers never have. In castle they will wreck knights and do +200% vs Eskirms…
Yeah, even lacking 1 range, this is stupid.


7 damage a shot vs cavalier. 20 shots to kill.

Best part? This civs eco bonus was the khmer bonus for wood gatherers.


Yeah that’s op. I could imagine something like +2/+4 in castle age / imp which might be a fair trade off.

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Thats what i tried to say but i was told i didnt know wjst i was talking about and op repeatedly pointed to CKN. a unit which needs a castle, a unique tech, and still fires slower because of its advantages.

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+2/4 would still be busted if you ask me.


Yikes… that combo isn’t fun to play with or against, it’s too easy. I understand designing a civ around a concept, but that’s a bit much.

I agree with you, as proposed it’s too broken for even just feudal archers.

Yikes. Well, this civ can be a case study for How To Not Design a Civ 101.

Cool, I suggest a civ that has cavalry that attack 100, 300, and 500% faster in Feudal/Castle/Imp. It’s fine because it’s just like a melee Chu Ko Nu (or Chu Ko KNight, if you will), and because they don’t get Cavalier or Hussar upgrades.

Depends on the civs other bonuses and tech tree I guess. In imp you effectively trade +2 atk for -1 range and - 10 hp and slower training time. Still their archers would be very strong. If that was too strong you could remove thumbring to make feudal archers lower accuracy be even more punishing than just having lower rof. Also you could play around with the atk values and remove bracer. Pretty sure there would be a way to balance it, the question is if that’s a civ design we really need (not convinced of that).

just another guy who doesnt understand how the game works, and how swingy extra damage on ranged attacks are

i wouldnt waste my time arguing with them unless they admit the civ needs to lack a lot more than just xbow and arb

more realisitically you’re looking for something like +1/3 attack in castle/imperial. to avoid the massive feudal power spike, any bonus damage there will be almost impossible to balance

lacking xbow and arb means with bracer they still get +1. but its a big instant spike in imperial. nevermind +5.

the bigger tragedy is vs cavaliers (the more common occurrence) when this guy gets to imp with bracer and chemistry he’s killing castle age knights in 14 hits instead of 20. he’s kiling knights in 17 even without any upgrades. FU cavaliers 20 instead of 35. he’s killing FU cavaliers as fast as the imperial powerspike generally counters knights. if they dont understand how good that is. they do not understand the game

Lacking only 1 range and the attack is comparable to melee units. While Rof is half of gunpowder unit and chu ko nu. This reminds me steppe lancer at release but with 6 more range. Even trash counter rip. How about changing Kamayuk with 7 range?

Found the source:

This one?

Yes thats the source

what is a 2nd generation civ?