The following thread is exclusively for discussing balance changes in the new update, just like in the old days. It’s important that the community provides accurate feedback so we can have an excellent final version.
@Cobaltdragon913 Yes, I know the rules. Please don’t merge this thread with the “thank you thread,” otherwise any potential balance changes will be lost. I say this from experience.
Personally, I like the changes, especially to Baja California in general, the nerf to the French 12/10, I think the general nerf to the Ottomans is fine but I think they went too far, The nerfs to mosques and bombards are fine, but the general nerf to the Ottoman army, I don’t know.
Definitely fine to discuss balance changes for The Baltic Powers here, but providing a friendly reminder, that if you would like any balance change feedback to be reviewed and possibly changed in the future, it would be best that this type of feedback is provided (and remain) in The Baltic Powers Beta Forum or Steam’s Open Beta Discussions.
This will help consolidate the feedback to just those two locations.
I should also note these two specific locations will be more closely monitored, and Developers may choose to respond with specific questions, if they need additional information.
For the moment, I’ll keep my thoughts to the two new civs. I’ve played one game with each and I liked them a lot, though I felt like I actually figured out a build for Denmank while my Poland game didn’t feel optimal.
Denmark:
Cheaper ages is a big deal, maybe too big (-10% might be better). I like the Tax system, that was an interesting idea in a game where I felt like a lot of the good economic bonuses might have been gone.
One thing I don’t currently know that seems important is if it scales to the number of players. If not I suspect it’ll be a serious balance problem. I saw in my 2v2 vs the AI that I got to tax my ally, which means I may have been getting as much as 3x what I would in a 1v1. The simple solution (if it’s not this way already) is to give a number per shipment divided by the number of other players.
Snaplock (III) concerns me a bit. +2 range on Dragoons in age 3 seems fine, but +2 range on Skirmishers seems too good. That’s a massive deal for hit-and-run in age 3 and 4, and it will get worse in age 4 after you get +0.25 speed from the Ski Troopers upgrade. My suggestion would be to give their skirmishers a 5-10% faster RoF from Snaplock instead. This would actually be kinda contradictory with the extra speed as they’d be spending a bit less time walking. Having Dragoons and Skirms upgrade together is very nice.
I get the feeling that they might have too many eco upgrade cards for Treaty. Agrarian Reforms feels more fair for Poland so I might replace it with Food Silos for Denmark to take away +15% from mills. That or maybe just remove Fur Trade.
I’d also probably opt to reduce their vill cap to 90. Given the tax income and the fact that all their units get RG it’d seem fair.
Schumacher Rockets (IV) is a very interesting card. I misunderstood it originally and thought it was going to let me spam imperial rockets in age 4. Fortunately it doesn’t. Were they speaking Indian though?
Order of the Dannerborg (III) was pretty fun. I didn’t test the Grens yet, those concern me slightly. For musks it seemed fair enough.
I haven’t checked out the ships or pigs yet. I’ll probably need to play more games with Poland before I have as thorough of an opinion. I want more Denmark games too.
Overall all thoughts; I like it. I could see either or both civs making my top 5 civs. I’m very happy that the studio decided to reverse course!
Looks like that should be inside the beta forum too? I made a thread in there called “Balance thoughts” and reposted my Denmark thoughts. Feel free to use it. I personally appreciate that Otto is finally getting nerfed. They’ve been a terror on the ladder for years and even if they are over nerfed they’ll still be ahead of a few civs I suspect.
Which changes do you think are the most noteworthy? Personally, I don’t like the nerf to Italy, especially because there’s no compensation. For example, merging the Stonemasons and Freemasons cards. After all, nobody uses the first card, and the second is almost mandatory for some strategies.
If any dev sees this please let us play and promote the game with the independence mode available (since at the moment it is not), it could be a game changer to many people from playing this amazing game to be able to play without XP, cards and home city, just good old 1 vs 1 civs
[Talking from a player-versus-player point of view, a.k.a. competitive ladder]
AOE3 has always had problems with units that counter too many units (Hakkapelit, Sudanese, Dervish), Poland’s unit composition (and economy) is a sad example of this problem yet again…
Their main attraction, the winged hussar, is just bad compared to the absolute beast that is the Retainer.
This unit is basically a Chinaco on steroids; he’s one pop hussar that counters every single other cavalry unit in the game (light cavalry included)… The 30% melee armor and high base attack is just ridiculous.
The Piechurs are just as bad; one pop zouave that has x2 against heavy infantry, x1.5 against light infantry and x3 against dragoons, high base damage and 21 range in late game… skirmishers are horribly outperformed. Meanwhile, heavy infantry and dragoons get shredded the minute they step into the Piechurs’s range.
But if they really want to keep the game alive, it isn’t about revisiting balance changes and new update only; it’s also about revamping game management.
We need way more active anti-cheat,
We need way more crack down on unsportsmanlike behavior on the ranked ladder: smurfing, or making 300ELO alt accounts farming for teammate.
The nerf to Tea export is extremely severe. If you want to nerf Russian Blockhouse just do that directly… So many builds gone just by that one change. The last 15 patches have had nerfs to China.
Asian civs still do not have access to Age V mercenary units. Their Age IV merc shipments options are not infinite like for the rest of civs.
Chinese flamethrowers are still useless.
Disciples are the only shock infantry unit in the game that cannot snare, even after White Pagoda.
Recruit Wokou +3 Wokou Horsemen card that costs 500 gold does not even enable you to build Wokou Outlaws, just… monkeys?
There were no significant new developments regarding India and China—in fact, China’s tea exports were actually undermined—whereas Japan’s Meiji Restoration received a massive boost.
Simply nerfing things without making other changes is dull; I would prefer to see a new mechanic added or an existing one buffed to alter the way China is played, even if tea exports are scaled back.
Bashibozuk: Ranged damage multiplier against Heavy Infantry reduced from 1.5x to 1.25x.
Great Bombard: Now spawns 5s slower, matching the same rate as Heavy Cannons.
Humbaraci:
Reduced speed and ranged resistance from 4.5 to 4.25 and from 30% to 25%.
Train time increased to 40s (from 38s).
Negative damage multiplier against Cavalry further reduced from 0.4x to 0.25x.
Janissary: Hitpoints reduced from 215 to 210.
5 Sipahi (III): Cost increased from 1000f to 1200f.
7 Humbaracis (IV): Card removed.
Acemi Oglan School (IV): Now reduces Humbaraci food and coin costs only by -10% instead of -20%.
Mosque Construction (III): Now reduces the costs of the advanced Mosque technologies enabled by the Palace Intrigue card by -30% (instead of -50%). Standard Mosque technologies continue to be discounted by -50%.
I think there are too many nerfs overall. I completely agree with the nerfs to factories and the mosque, but I think the other nerfs were too harsh, especially those to the Janissaries and Abun Gun.
I would like to suggest that developers increase the cost of the fishing nets in wood to 200 or 300 and allow up to 5 fishing boats to work on them. I would also recommend increasing the distance at which these nets can be placed and increasing the visual size of the nets to facilitate their management.
Regarding Argentina, I have a proposal.
I recommend making the Barbecue card also work with Livestock Pens and enabling the card for the Argentine revolution. (Mexico will also benefit from this and really needs it)
I recommend adding the Hire Landsknecht Mercenaries card to Argentina and enabling training in bars and Lombards after sending this card. (This refers to the first founding of Buenos Aires)
I suggest increasing the health and damage of the Mounted Grenadiers and the Gaucho by an additional 5% after sending the Outlaw Band card.
I recommend you comment on the changes you’d like to undo and which ones you’d like to change; this is the best time to suggest things since the developers are receptive because of the beta.
I would love for them to add a “Patricios” card fir Argentina. It could upgrade Musks to Patricios and give them a unique skin. Or if too many civs give upgrades to Musks specifically, maybe it could be an upgraded Revolutionary
I would love for them to add both the Patrician and the Infernal, and considering the changes and new mechanics that the developers added in the new revolutions, I would love to see the Argentine, Brazilian, and Gran Colombian revolutions completely remade, at the same level as the German Confederation revolution.
PS: I hope they give San Martin an aura to increase the movement speed and attack speed of the cavalry and add upgrades for the general as cards. (They did something similar with one of the new revolutions)
