Time of the Game: How the civs currently stand in the Time (Discussion)

GoldenArmorX · March 24, 2025, 8:01pm

How the civs currently stand in the Time

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Good morning, I wanted to discuss a topic that has caught my attention recently:

When the game came out in 2021, the first 8 civilizations had a time frame in their descriptions between 800 AD and 1600 AD.

On the other hand, the landmarks became more complex between ages, giving the impression that they represented the cultural transition from the Early Middle Ages to the Early Modern Age, with firearms and cannons.

However, this latest DLC has made me reconsider this idea, especially when analyzing the time period of the English in the game, and that many civs are really only representing a portion of the timeframe they claim to occupy.

With that in mind, I believe there are actually three types of civilization:

Early Medieval Civ, between 800 AD and 1200 AD
Broad Spectrum Civ, between 800 AD and 1600 AD
Late Medieval Civ, between 1100 AD and 1600 AD

With that in mind, I will be doing a thorough comparison of each civilization in terms of their historical and temporal representation and how they could be improved.

A).- Early Medieval Civilizations (800-1200)

Abbasids

In the feudal era, it represents the early years of the Abbasid Empire before the Nasrid Revolt (750-861). Only the Maghariba, or Maghreb troops in the Camel Archers, are represented.
In the Castle Age, the military Ghulam system was already established (836).
In the Imperial Age, it represents several periods: A) The final years of the Abbasid Empire until its supplanting by the Seljuk Empire in 1055; B) Their temporary rebirth, several times, between 1118 and 1258. C) Their stay as the Abbasid caliphate from 1258 to 1517 under the rule of the Mamluk Sultanate would at least justify their having gunpowder units.

Official: (750-1517), Reality (speculation): 750-1055 (I-II-III), 1118-1258-1517 (IV)

Suggestions: Add more unique units for the Feudal Age with troops that the Abbasids historically used. Camel units were technically not their unique unit; they were units recruited from Berber villages. They could include: “Hujariyya,” “Abna al-dawla,” “Faraghina,” and “Ushrusaniyya.” In theory, camels would cover the so-called “Maghariba” unit of the Maghreb, but they actually had several types of unique units.

English:

In the Dark Ages, they represent the Anglo-Saxon era, where they were harassed by Vikings, hence the defensive Brigh Bond, which makes their urban centers stronger, as well as their paranoid villagers who carry a bow everywhere. Early men-at-arms are the huscarls (850-1066).
In the Feudal Age, they represent early Norman rule (1066-1100), with landmarks of the time.
In the Castle Age, they represent middle-late Norman rule (1100-1300), when at some point they developed counterbalancing trebushets and heavy cavalry evolved.
In the Imperial Age, it represents Plantagenet rule until the beginning of the Hundred Years’ War. During the Siege of Cambrai in 1339, Henry III used Ribauldoquins. From then on, “They did not advance much from that period.” Even the most remarkable thing is from the Norman period: “St. Thomas’ Cathedral”, rebuilt and consecrated in 1077 AD; and York Castle in stone around 1250.

Notes: Apparently, the English weren’t really made to represent, at least architecturally or economically, the years after 1300, but the anglo-saxon and normand period, for the Campaign. The “Wynguard” landmark is a way of trying to show the Tudor period to justify the gunpowder units, but they don’t actually have any “real” Tudor-era attributes; their name isn’t even related to the building it represents, and in fact, their soldiers (Wynguard Footman and Ranger) look more like Norman and Welsh soldiers than Tudor guards.

This would be problematic if it weren’t for the fact that they’re going to create the Lancasters to represent the second part of the Hundred Years’ War up to the beginning of Henry VIII’s Tudor period; so it’s fine.

Suggestion: Now that the base English are going to represent the early years of the English, more unique units or technologies from the Norman and Anglo-Saxon periods could be considered, if needed.

Mongols

In Dark Ages, you have an early horseman for rushing and a khan, let’s say representing the rushing common among Mongol khans (900-1200).
In the Feudal Age, it represents the unified Mongol clan army of Genghis and his first attacks on Jin China (1206->)
In the Castle Age, it represents the Mongols of Genghis after conquering the Jin and with access to Trebuchet, in their conquests of the rest of the world (1234-1300)
In theImperial Empire, the Mongols had already conquered Russia and China, and therefore could recruit from these nations for their armies with the landmark “”. It represents both the Horde of the Yuan Dynasty and the city of Karakorun, as well as the Golden Horde and other khaganates that continued a semi-nomadic life (Chagatai, for example).

Notes: As you can see, the Mongols, in their bonds, do not stray far from the period from 900 to 1300, since they always retain the nomadic nature of the Horde. Apparently, the current Mongols cover the Mongol Horde of Genghis Khan, the city of Karakorun, and the later semi-nomadic hordes. They do not represent, at least in architecture, the sedentary Islamic khanates, such as the Il-Khanate or the Timurids, because they do not have Islamic or Persian architecture in any of their landmarks, and they retain the shamans of the nomadic and pagan era, instead of imams. If you ever have to represent them, they might as well take advantage and create a Timurid variant civ, with Tamerlane.

Official: (1000-1500), Reality (speculation): 1000-1200 (I), 1200-1234 (II), 1234-1260 (III), 1260-1500 (IV)

A).- Broad-spectrum civ (800-1650)

French

In Feudal, you already have heavy cavalry, but with mail and jousting shield. We’re assuming you’re starting from 900 AD to 1200 AD, before crossbowmen were used.
In Castles, we’re assuming it represents the period of the Hundred Years’ War (1337-1453), when they were already producing their own crossbowmen; however, they didn’t yet have gunpowder units.
In Imperial, from the end of the Hundred Years’ War (1431-1453), with the appearance of cannons, having the most advanced among European civs, to the end of the Italian Wars (1494-1559).
TechTree Time: 840 AD-1559.

Suggestions: To represent future Italian Wars scenarios, you’ll need more unique units, including: French Archers and Scottish Guards.

HRE

In Feudal, from 1000-1200, they have early Men-at-Arms, perhaps to represent the Ministerials.
In Castles, from 1200-1500, since it includes the Landsknecht, which only came out in 1470.
In Imperial, since they don’t have “any” unique technology or additional unique units unlocked in this age, it’s difficult to say for sure. The only things from this age are the Landmarks (ElzCastlev3:1450 and Swabia2:1461) and the architecture of the buildings, and aesthetically, the plate armor of some units, as well as the cannons.

Suggestion: They lack a trade bonus, even though the empire had a subdivision focused on it: the Hanseatic League. They were known for their trade in weapons and armor. How about a trade bonus for each blacksmithing technology developed? Then there are the Landsknechts; they could have more types, especially the Pikeman mode. Now that the Lancasters are going to have one, more civs could have them. They could also give them “Landsknecht gunners, with arquebus.” Also, the Black Riders, or Schwarze Reiter, could be a good pick for Imperial Unique Units.

Rus

They represent the broad spectrum from the beginning of the Christian Varangian kingdoms, to Kievan Rus, and then the Russian Tsardom.

In Feudal, with the Kremlin and Market, these are the Christian kingdoms of pre-Mongol Russia (<1200), especially the Principality of kyiv. The Druzhina as heavy cavalry is well represented.
In Castles, from 1200-1450, a period of Mongol domination, but also of revolts against them, and the emergence of the Principality of Moscow.
In Imperial, the period from 1450-1584, when the Russian Tsardom begins its massive expansion. They acquire cannons and muskets, form the Strelsy, defeat the Golden Horde, and seize Novgorov.

Suggestion: Since the Oprisniks were created in 1565, it would be a good opportunity to make them a unique Imperial Age cavalry unit.

About Landmarks: So far, all the Keeps in the game pale in comparison to the English one, even though it’s an arrow-shooting Keep from an extremely ancient era (1200). The French one is fine, but the Russian and Ottoman ones are very weak in terms of defense. I would suggest doing like the English landmark: Make its cannon have a range of 13 or 14, and make it safe to only attack it with rock throwers.

Chinese

Interestingly, they aren’t divided so much by age, but by Dynasty. You could technically spend the entire game with the Tang Dynasty up to the Imperial Dynasty. It would be the only civ that represents a broad spectrum of time from each dynasty you want to represent. - Tang (618-907) - In theory, you could eventually acquire Palace Guard and Hornet’s Nest if you reach Castle Age. You’re not expected to do that because their bonus becomes useless once the map is explored.

Song (960-1279) - In most games, players try to get their bonus as quickly as possible to produce a Villager Boom in China. One could technically play them until the Imperial Age, however, the Yuan and Ming bonuses are too attractive in the Late Game to avoid, and if one has already produced enough villagers, it’s time to transition.
Yuan (1271-1368) - Mongol rule, represented by the Mongolian Messenger Ortho bonus, but in Chinese, passively increasing the movement speed of all units. So effective that some even transition from Ming to Yuan, or never to Ming. Their pagodas, we suppose, represent the rise of Buddhism in China.
Ming (1368-1644) - The dynasty of the late Middle Ages. It lasted so long that the military HP bonus hardly represents it at all. Of course, the two landmarks of this age: “Great Wall of China.”

Interestingly, the Landmark aren’t ordered by age, but by usefulness, maybe for balance, which would justify that you could use them with any of the dynasties:
– ii).- Imperial Academy – Imperial Academy (~200 AD → many)
– ii).- Barbican of the Sun – Zhengyangmen Gate (~1421)
– iii).- Astronomical Clocktower – The Astronomical Water Clock of Su Song (1092)
– iii).- Imperial Palace – Palace in the Forbidden City (~500 AD → many)
– iv).- Spirit Way – Qiandling Mausoleum (684 AD)
– iv).- Grate Wall Gatehouse – Juyongguan Great Wall – The North Pass to Beijing (1342 AD)
– Wonder: Enclave of the Emperor – The Forbidden Palace (1421)

Suggestion: They have a large representation, but precisely because it’s a broad-based civ, and on top of that, China being so large and having such a rich history, it would lack many unique units, especially for the Ming Dynasty period. They lack for example, the Lang xian pikeman for the Mandarin duck formation that was used aggainst Wukou Pirates.

Zhu Xi

Interestingly, they aren’t divided so much by age, but by Dynasty. You can technically spend the ENTIRE game with the Tang Dynasty up to the Imperial Age. It would be the only civ that represents broad time periods of each dynasty you want to represent, along with its parent civ.

Tang (618-907). In theory, you could use Hornet’s Nest if you reach the Castle Age. Unlike China, you can hopefully reach the Imperial Age with this civ, taking advantage of the Landmarks discount. If you really liked the Tang Dynasty, Zhu Xi is your favorite.
Song (960-1279) - Due to its cheap building bonus, including farms and town centers, it’s ideal for an economic boom in the Feudal Age.
Yuan (1271-1368) - The Mongol rule, represented by the free stone unit bonus, now means your military units are 15% cheaper. The Yuan Rider, a unique unit from Zhu Xi’s Landmark Library, can be unlocked with this dynasty active.
Ming (1368-1644) - The Late Middle Ages dynasty. The Temple of the Sun Landmark is from this age.
Similar to China, some landmarks represent various moments in Chinese history, though they are generally from ages prior to 1000 AD.
– Three Great Towers - (223 AD, 653 AD, 618 AD)
– Meditation Gardens - (~1600–1046 BC)
– Shaolin Temple - (519 AD)
– Mount Lu Academy - (831 AD)
– Zhu Xi Library - (>1200 AD)
– Temple of the Sun - (1530 AD)

Japan

Dark Ages (I), at least that would be the period, as a prologue, it was a decadent period in Japan
Feudal Age (II), Heian period, the landmark is from this time, and samurai still use naginatas. Onna-musha are from the Genpei Wars. - Castle Age (III), Continuing Genpei Wars (), Kamakura Period () and Muromachi Period (), Northern and Southern Courts (Odachi).
Imperial Age (IV), the Sengoku period (1454-1603), and the beginning of the Tokugawa Shogunate (1603->). They have the latest Imperial Age, but with justification, as firearms were acquired in 1543, Nage Yari between ~1550, Castles from 1575, Ribauldoquin is from 1620, and Maravilla is from 1615.
In addition to the ages, the names of fortified urban centers reflect the gradual change of landowners of noble houses from simple administrators to feudal lords and then to the daimyo warlords of the Sengoku Era.

Suggestion: The civilization still has a handcannoner instead of an arquebusier with a “Tanegashima arquebus.” This unit is iconic in Japan. Consider giving this unit to the Japanese by changing the ashigaru handcannoner to an arquebus. If they were to campaign against Japan, there would be plenty of historical moments where this weapon appears, from Oda Nobunaga’s victories to the Japanese Invasion of Korea, so it’s quite important.

Byzantines

In reality, several of their Landmarks are from very different ages than the Roman Empire, so an analysis of them across ages is impossible.
What does stand out between ages is the Architect
The houses are transformed from Greek houses to their Byzantine complex version in Imperial.
The Varangian Guard is available in the Castle Age, but they were formed in 850 AD.
The same goes for cataphracts; they were developed during the barbarian invasions, learning from the Parthians and Persians. They should be available from the Feudal Age, but I assume you only get them in the Castle Age for balance.
The mercenary contract has some details that are debatable:
Silk Road contract, includes Mali and China. Historically, the Romans had units of Grenadiers, Camels, and Javelin Throwers, so it can be accepted if they are Roman, but foreign ones are unlikely.
– Western Mercenary Contract: Features the Streltsy as an Imperial Age unit, as they appeared in 1550, and the Byzantines became extinct in 1452. The unit is anachronistic in joining the Byzantines. I would suggest that when another European gunpowder unit is available, it be used instead of the streltsy.
– Foreign Engineering Company: I can skip the cannons, because the French did develop cannons by 1431. Since this is a simulation game, it’s within the scope.

Note: Apparently, the civilizations currently available in the Sultans Ascend DLC were used to decide the Byzantine mercenary allies. In the future, like the Templars, it would be appreciated if more historical mercenaries could be added, perhaps a fourth contract for the Byzantines, who still don’t have important mercenaries like: Almogavars (Aragon), Genoese Crossbowmen (Genoa), Venetians (Venice).

B).- Late Medieval Civilization

Delhi Sultanate

According to the official website, they would start with the Ghurid dynasty (AD 879-1215), however, most of the bonuses and landmarks are after the Conquest of India and the year 1200 A.D.
In the Feudal Age (II), their Landmarks date from after the Conquest of India in 1206, and represent the Mamluk dynasty of Delhi.
In the Castle Age (III), they recently acquired Elephants, although this may be due to balance rather than historical representation, as they had some since the Ghurid dynasty. Based on the landmarks (Siri Fort 1306, Jamat Khana Masjid 1316), it would be the Khalij Dynasty.
In the Imperial Age (IV), it would be a representation of the last two dynasties of the sultanate. The true marvel is the Agra Palace, built with white stone in 1504. This palace was demolished by the Mughals and rebuilt with red stone to create the Agra Fort, with which it is often confused.
The economic bonus from free technologies, however, is interpreted as three events: the Islamic conversion culture in India, transmitting Eurasian technology and techniques to the Hindus to be converted (Dark Ages), the Iqta system (Feudal), and Alauddin Khalji’s economic reforms to control the economy (Castles and Imperial).

Suggestion: I previously suggested that they could have the Paik as a unique unit, but now that it’s a unique technology, there’s no problem. They are actually well represented; although considering they controlled part of India’s trade, they could have some bonus from this. I would set them to gain an extra 5% in trade profits for every 10 technologies they developed. On the other hand, they dominated many Indian peoples, so they should have many Hindu concrypts as allies. Since there are no units for a Rajput or Viyajanagara Civ yet, they don’t have any extra units, but they could very well have Chakram throwers as mercenaries, or free units, besides the Sultan Elephant.

Joan of Arc

Start with Joan as a villager, and grow as she gains experience. The French army is the one from the Hundred Years’ War, and the one after 1450 when the Ordinances were formed, plus Joan’s allies, nobles or mercenaries who decided to join her fight as her bodyguards. - Time Tech Three: (AD 1412-1431)

Order of the Dragon

It actually starts out as representing the HRE, but with the twist that instead of the normal army, they’re all nobles wearing expensive armor from the Order of the Dragon. In fact, there’s little to no representation of the nationality of the Order members. Some landmark effects are adapted to fit the new dragon villagers and unique blacksmithing technologies, but nothing more. There’s not much historical background to discuss, so let’s move on to the next one.

Mali

Already in the Feudal Age, you have most of the units of the Mali army from the time of Mansa Tsakura (~1300), including the Sofa cavalry, which in theory were originally infantry, and only later were cavalry divisions created.
. I suppose for gameplay reasons, so they’re good rushers. The landmarks refer to aspects of the Mali Empire’s culture rather than a specific historical evolution.
However, for the Imperial Age, I assume it represents the final years of the empire, after the separation of Songhay (1450-1670). The musofadi artillery would be troops recruited from Benin, and the cannons imported from Europe, perhaps from the Portuguese.
Official Timeline: AD 1235-1670

Ottomans

It begins with the Vizier system, which existed since the beginning of the 14th century (~1300-1400).
The Feudal Age would represent the initial Seljuk period until the early years of the Ottoman Empire, without gunpowder.
In the Castle Age, there’s already the Tocktapi Palace, after the fall of Constantinople (1452). Technically, they should already produce “Great Bombards,” which you can use with the “” technology in the 3rd Age.
For the Imperial Age, the 4th Age, you can mass-produce Great Bombards, I assume representing the period from 1452 to 1617.
Time Tech Three: (AD 990-1566)
Speculated Time: I (990-1300) II (1200-1400) III (1400-1452) IV (1400-1617) Wonder (1617)

Ayyubid

Etymologically, it meant “Government of Kurds,” referring to the tribe of Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub, “Saladin.”
Founded by Saladin himself in 1171, it appears in the game once you regain control of Baghdad and the House of Knowledge, which they held until 1257.
Much of its mechanics are based on early raiding.
Many of their units are based on Ayyubid-era troops, such as the Dervish mystics and the Atabeg advisors. As well as a large number of Bedouin troops: the Bedouin Swordsman, the Beduin Skirmisher, the Desert Raider (Bedouin, I suppose), and even the Camel Lancer (Bedouin again).
The age progression is purely cosmetic, as it’s merely a mechanic to increase the number of bonuses granted by the House of Knowledge.
Historically, they maintained control of Hama until 1341, so they could have firearms and cannons, considering their existence under the aid of the Mamluk dynasty.

DISCUSSION

When the game was made, several civilizations were planned so that they would all cover a broad spectrum of civs, and at least all could reach 1500 AD, in order to have bombards and handcannons.

However, when it came to representing civilizations, some more heavily represented passive bonuses, landmarks, and units from early ages, without representing time periods like the Early Modern Age with the same intensity, dividing them into Early Medieval and Broad-Spectrum civs.

With the arrival of Season 3, two Late Medieval civs appeared: the Ottomans and Malians, breaking the initial paradigm that all civs had to begin in the 8th or 9th century AD.

Sultans Ascend. With the first DLC and the Season 6 variants, the idea was implemented that civs were no longer required to be broad-spectrum, and that they could now seek to represent specific armies that would be difficult to represent within the core civs.

Of course, these variant civs retained most of the bonuses of their original civs, not for historical reasons, but to make it easier for players to play the variants, already familiar with their parent civs. This was truly “not liked by the community” because some variants were seen as “better versions” of their parent civs, with little effort to make them almost identical, and little historical significance.

Knight of Rose and Cross - Already in Season 10, and based on the feedback received, the addition of two new variants is being considered. This time, the idea is that they don’t have to be 80% identical to their parent civs, but rather that they should be more historically based, even if that causes them to differ greatly from their parent civs. It’s also a way to take advantage of the ability to represent specific armies of specific civilizations, which were previously not allowed to be represented because they fell into broad categories or were categorized as early or late medieval.

In the case of Lancaster, it is speculated that it will be the English version of the Late Middle Ages (1300-1500).

In the case of the Templars, it will be an Early Middle Ages (1000-1300) civ, using the French as the parent civ since the order originated in France, and historically sharing architecture, unit models, and the primary language of the villagers, who are speculated to be French pilgrims and settlers.

Opinions

And what do you think? Do you consider any of the discussed civs not truly broad-spectrum? In which category should new civilizations fall?

Here are some ideas:

Norse: Early Middle Ages (800-1066)
Spanish: Broad-spectrum (718-1558)
Korea: Broad-spectrum (918-1609)
Aragon: Late Middle Ages (1137–1516)
Incas: Late Middle Ages (1197–1572)
Aztecs: Late Middle Ages (1325–1521)
Timurids: Late Middle Ages (1370–1507)
Mamluk Sultanate: Late Middle Ages (1250–1517)
Poland-Lithuania: Late Middle Ages (1385–1621)

ArrangedCrown94 · March 24, 2025, 8:58pm

My top are

Spanish
Aztecs
Norse
Polish