Sheesh, I don’t want to imagine buffed Cataphracts. Goths would be absolutely steamrolled.
I think Logistica should be rolled into the Elite upgrade, with the upgrade given a corresponding increase in cost.
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and what would be in place of logistica?
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Themata reformation: skirmishers, pikemen and camels created X% faster.
First thing that came to mind, kinda bland but historically grounded and still about “logistics”. It would emphasize even more the role of defensive counter (and levies) civ.
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cataphract is less used due to the bad state infantry is in, just like the jaguar warrior.
fix militia-line and other infantry and it’ll indirectly buff cataphract as a result and see more usage
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While still being cheaper?
Yes someone mentioned it before and I agree with you. But I can’t think of any easy way to fix the infantry line in the game.
Byzantine fans want cataphract to counter camel, infantry and archers…and then still hold fine vs cav…that’s their dream so that they can only make this one unit alone. Xxxxd. Actually pure cataphract already works very well in noob bashing because many low level players don’t know how to counter them.
you realize it is a very expensive unit to train and upgrade, right?
In equal resources, they counter in castle age at least eagles, LS, camels from any civ, mamelukes, all non samurai melee infantry UUs, skirms, light cav.
They even beat post imperial huskarls and eagles (they are in a tie against mayans, barely winning), which are the main matchups where you want cataphracts.
We could move the faster firing Dromons and fire ship civ bonus.
Byzantines are a very well rounded civ in every map and fairly popular. Every now and then, we even see people asking for nerfs because they feel helpless against the civ. They dont need love compared to at least 10 other civs. So a buff of cataphracts should come together with a nerf.
If Byzantine main conplain about the cataphracts viability to make the civ “more intetesting”, then they should talk about what they are ready to lose to get it.
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Is it too much? I don’t think so considering it’s the imperial UT. If anything it could be kinda useless at that point (however training fast cheap counter options to what your enemy is sending against you sounds very fitting with the defensive / counteroffensive theme of the civ).
it can already fight off camel well enough with its cavalry armor, its also the reason why it take less bonus damage from pike/halbs
I read what you said and did some tests, and I found out that you are right. Maybe it’s just me, struggling to fight off counter-heavy cavalry units…
It could work although I can’t tell if it would be op/ok/below average… If it could be balanced in some way
How about against Frank Paladins with Blood Lines?
I was planning to make a separate video with Frankish Paladins with bloodlines, but against which units…
Camels, elephants and halberdiers. Also, cataphracts with BL and BF. Maybe halberdiers equal resources
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hmmm I could make a video, sounds like fun, thanks for the suggestions!
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That is my point. They want them to buff catas against heavy cavs, which is the only weakness of catas. So that noobs can spam cata and win with nothing else. They would be good vs infantry, camels, siege, heavy cavs, and at their level, archers and monks too.
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Well from your profile photo we know younare biased
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yes thats generally the preference of lower level players, they wish to use 1 unit and patrol into the enemy so less micro thus more enjoyable for them
Hera’s thoughts on the Cataphract. Basically, it sounded to me like he considers Byzantines a well-rounded and well-balanced civ with some weaknesses. But that the cataphract, as expensive as it is, is a power unit that pairs nicely with their discounted spears, skirms, and camels. And he noted that while Logistica is expensive, it’s very powerful and is necessary to make it shine.
My own thoughts: Byzantines are intended to be a defensive civ. Cataphracts as a power unit are extremely expensive, but are powerful enough (and well-rounded enough) to provide something for the Byzantines player to build towards (giving them a late-game payout for surviving so long). It’s not something that they’d want to use every game though (some games arbs/hand cannons will be a better option). It’s also a solid unit for team games (where the high gold cost matters less because you have access to trade, meaning that gold won’t really run out).
Cataphracts (and Byzantines in general) have some downsides, but those downsides are what keep the civ from becoming OP.
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