Time to nerf the Mangudai

It’s quite the challenge to take down Mongol Castles when Mangudai can snipe your Trebs so easily. Perhaps a slight nerf vs Rams (Unpacked Trebs are part of this Armor Class) would suffice.

too late, this already happened in 4.8

  • With patch 4.8, Mangudai get back their initial attack bonus of +3 (+5 for Elite) against siege weapons. The attack bonus against rams is removed.
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I’m hoping that by giving them a penalty vs the Ram armor class, they will do less damage to Rams (and Trebs) overall.

they already removed their bonus damage against rams, what more do you want?


That was just removing what they added in forgotten after removing the anti siege bonus. They never had a bonus against ram class originally.
IMO nerfing anti siege bonus isn’t as harmless as people think. Mongols would just die to Halb ram in early imp when they’re supposed to be the exception


Most nerf topics here are like: I don’t know how to counter this unit, let’s nerf them.


The only thing about mangudai which feels a bit unfair to me is the bonus damage against siege. I feel like +3/+5 (for non-elite and elite) is fine against rams, but should toned down a bit for other siege weapons (or at least mangonels and scorps), to something like +2/+3, especially given that the mangudai base damage is already pretty high.


Let’s not exaggerate the Mongol nerfs shall we ? Just to recapitulate the changes since AoC :

  • elite mangudaie have +5 frame delay BUT non elite have -5 frame delay
  • lost elite cannon galleon (irrelevant for 99.999% of the games)
  • hunt bonus went from +50% to +40%
  • gained access to steppe Lancers with +30% HP bonus on top.

That’s two nerfs and two buffs (if you discount the cannon galleon change), so let’s not pretend the civ was heavily nerfed or anything. They might be slightly worse than in AoC, but not by much.

I’m not even factoring in how much they benefit from cav archers being more usable with -10g.

A civ like Mayans is much worse off for example, with increased plumes cost (twice), nerfed longer lasting resources, El Dorado has increased train time, they don’t get the free vil from the start on nomad…


Don’t understand why Mayan should be strong. They are quite predictable. Starting Feudal to counter Archer with skirms and continue the rush with Knights, siege or militia against eagles. Every time I play or see somebody playing, they just lose fights. Just the El Dorado eagles are strong but try to come to post imp.

Plumes are to expensive and bad in comparison to Mangudai, less HP, damage and no siege bonus! Just a bit easier to mass but still expensive. And at the end they are still good. What are Mangudais? That is ridiculous!

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Mongols have very limited eco bonus on most maps. They are supposed to be a strong late game civ, but weak mid-game. I don’t see any problem with where they are now.

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Why do you want to change units which balance is working for more than 20 years now?


I agree they should nerf Mangudai, but just a little because Mongols rely too much on their UU.

All they need to do is nerf their “Frame Delay” (increase by 1 or 2) and reduce their Bonus vs siege by 1. Their Frame Delay is the biggest problem imo… it’s obnoxious to raid and snipe units.


Skirms are a solid counter
There’s your nerf


Pfff then they add Siege Onagers and now you do what with your Skirms?

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  1. We are talking about one unit, not a unit composition
  2. Siege Onagers get decimated by Bombard Cannons, there ya go

Skip to 13:30 and watch for ~1 minute the fight.
Hera is extremely good with micro? Well yes, but the unit is also way too easy to micro compared to other units in the game… Skirm is a good counter but doesn’t change the fact that the unit needs a small nerf.

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Some civs just are designed to revolve more around their UU than others. Mongols are such a civ. You nerf their UU, the civ gets nerfed and you need to buff them elsewhere. But for what reason would you do that? Is it needed somehow? The question to ask is, are mongols too good? If not, then why go through all this trouble? A problem would be if they never relied on their UU, which was the case for Indians and who now got a well deserved buff for their EA. But relying “too much” on it, if that is the design of it and the civ is still not completely broken OP, is not a problem at all.


know what the problem with this video is? no spears or skirms from daut. and he still manages to kill 3 mangudai using a few mangonels, MILITIA of all things, and 2 monks.

not to mention the denied gathering time, the destroyed buildings, and the huge amount of damage done to Heras TC.

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Mangudai op,but Mongol don’t have other good weapons besides .If nerf Mangudai, should give you this civ something else


If you can counter an expensive unit using a trash unit cost effectively, that means that unit is balanced