Are you also @Vinifrss? You seem like him.
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Persian Empires : 550 BCE to 330 BCE
Eastern Roman Empire : 330 BCE to 1453 CE
Ottoman Empire : 1299 CE to 1922 CE
Thanks wikipedia.
Maps:
Those empire got almost the same territory look at the map. Don’t need to have an Historical licence to know that if you have a limited amount of ressources and a lot of choice to talk about Empires in a mainstream media you’ll waste your time to make those at the same time.
@RadiatingBlade edit: Be respectful towards other forum users.
Persia goes to today’s Kazakhstan, Afghan, Pakistan… Ottoman Empire right in the heart of Europe, Hungary, HRE, separated by up to 1500 years… and they’re the same.
Wow. Ok.
I think the only civ that really MUST be included is the Byzantine Empire, as it’s influence was huge and it remained the court all other (Christian/Muslim) states looked up to right until it’s demise in 1453.
The Pope was still looking at the Byzantine Emperor as an equal spriritual leader until the 1050’s.
Early Caliphates copied the Roman bureaucracy.
Early Caliphates copied Byzantine architecture (see dome of the rock, damascus mosque etc.)
Holy Roman Emperors always aspired to be at least on par with the “real” emperor in Constantinople.
Ottomans copied late Byzantine architecture (present day Turkish mosques are not fundamentally different from medieval Byzantine churches).
Byzantine military strategy, tactics, etc influenced medieval warfare to a large extent, even inspiring the renewed dominance of infantry on the battlefield from 1500 onwards.
Greco-Roman/Byzantine science continued to be the basis of all scientific endeavours, in both the Christian and Islamic worlds (the Islamic Golden Age was a continuation of Greco-Roman science for example, not something that came out of nowhere from Muslim Arabic bedouins at the edges of civilization).
Arabs, Rus, Turks all had Constantinople as their main target for conquest but everyone failed. Only the Western States were able to capture the city in 1204, spelling the end for the Byzantine Empire despite it’s limited resurgence afterwards. The Constantinople the Ottomans conquered in 1453 was a ghost of it’s former past, but even they celebrated it as their greatest victory.
Even after their military power waned after the 1204 defeat, the Byzantine court exerted an amount of political influence that no other ruler (Christian, Pagan or Muslim) in Europe or the Middle East could dream of.
The list goes on. I think there isn’t an empire with such a profound influence as the Byzantine one throughout the AoE IV timeframe.
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Just a question you are from USA right ? Ottoman Empire in the HEART of Europe ? Oh boy you can’t be more off the map XD
not what i wrote. if you resume what i wrote to say what you want to ear - As you like - but don’t disinform other people in the process to make you feel important thank you in advance.
Is America worse than Europe somehow?
If Hungary, Vienna is not the heart of Europe… would you be so kind as to tell me what is?
How far east are we extending Europe? If Russia counts, then the heart is probably somewhere in Ukraine. If we aren’t, it could be in Germany, depending on when you cut Europe off. I’m assuming that by heart you mean “rough geographical center”.
One, definitely not only a “geographical” (?) center.
What is land? A square mile in bleak, frosty Rus wasteland is historically worth less than a square yard in mild-climate, pleasant, civilized Constantinople.
Two, this is not 20th century World Wars.
Medieval South Europe was relatively way more important. Bulgars, Hungarians, Roman Empire were the strongest armies in Europe. Not weaker English, VIkings, Rus or even HRE.
The key action was in the Balkans, Thrace, Italian peninsula, Asia Minor, HRE, Iberian peninsula and France. Hungary (defeated Mongols 2nd time, but conquered by the Ottoman Empire) or Austria would probably be the weighted-geography true “heart” of Europe.
In terms of civilization and imperial history, the heart of Europe was Constantinople. No questions asked.
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This much I agree. Superpower capital for what, 1300 years? From 400 CE to 1700 CE is that correct? Holy goddam fuck.
London, New York were superpower capital for 100-ish years each right… TEN times less than Istanbul/ Constantinople!!
Talk about an “Eternal City”. Istanbul is the historical city.
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Actually Constantinople stopped being one of the hearts of Europe when the Turks occupied it. As you may have heard, all wealth and knowledge left Constantinople after 1453 with most people fleeing to Italy. The Ottomans had to repopulate the city with peasants from Anatolia, meaning it lost its status as a place of knowledge almost immediately.
After Constantinople, the heart of Europe shifted to Northern Italy and the Low Countries, places where the Renaissance started, modern science and capitalism was invented, etc.
From 400-1453 yes definitely in the heart of Europe though.
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Quite far from the truth. The “friend” is often the real villain, whilst the “enemy” is the true hero. Watch this.
Massacred by treacherous, barbaric Crusaders (as per Kings and Generals editor himself) who entered the city to “protect it” in 1204, the “Queen of Cities” recovered miraculously under the Turks and became the biggest city in the world again, in 1550-1690.
Crusaders merely destroyed, just like the Mongols. The Turks nursed it, instituted cosmopolitanism and tolerance (the “convivencia”), resurrected it to status of #1 world metropolis.
I just checked (please verify), Istanbul is the largest city in Europe today, 2021 AD, with 17 million inhabitants - and possesses older historical heritage than London, Paris, Berlin and Amsterdam combined.
Most important of all:
You forget ‘Europe’ is a geography concept. It’s just a place, not a ethnic-religion concept. Europe ends, and Asia begins, in Istanbul.
Constantinople was only one of the largest cities in medieval Europe, not the largest city in the world…
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What’s the source for that? It looks like just a mediocre YouTube video. Here’s some information from Wikipedia. I apologize for the poorly made screenshots, I only have access to my phone as of now since I’m in the US.
As you can see, China has the most populated city until 1900, where it is overtaken by London.
If you check the most populated cities in Europe, you’ll see it’s Constantinople. But it is most certainly not the most populated in the world. China has always had a vast population and will most likely continue to have the most people unless India surpasses it. Anyways, here’s a post from the Guardian. An official American business.
As you can see once again, Constantinople is not the most populated city. Here’s a YouTube video, but take it with a grain of salt. On YouTube, anyone can make anything.
Istanbul climbs all the way up to the top (which is hands down impressive) but it still cannot surpass China’s city until the early 1600s. Then, near the end of the century, it is swiftly overtaken by storm by Beijing and Tokyo. But, as you know, Age of Empires 4 unfortunately isn’t very far-reaching.
As much as I love Byzantine history, I can’t argue with historical evidence. I have given three sources, in which two were official information.
Ollie Bye not mediocre?
By mediocre I mean it is not a historically credible source, as it’s an independent YouTuber. For my third source I cited another YouTube video which displays different information to the first two (credible) sources. It’s an example of one random person making a chart that doesn’t have any sources of it’s own listed.
I respect this YouTuber that was presented originally, mainly because of his disclaimer. It’s his own estimates to keep the data consistent (as shown below in the image).
To summarize, most YouTube videos are not credible sources for information like this. Archives and official content should be the primary database for historical information.
Constantinople was never the heart of Europe, quite the opposite, it was at the absolute fringe of Europe.
I don’t know many people who actually want to live in the biggest cities in Europe. Too overpopulated, too expensive, too crime ridden, too cosmopolitan and alien, too stressful. It’s not like they are so desperate that they can’t choose where to live and work. These aren’t poor countries.
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I don’t see contradiction, you just reporting a different year. Historical data are sketchy, but the relative rank of cities in different centuries is pretty established.
The only city that was #1 throughout history, from the ancient world (Beijing was nonbeing!) to high and low middle ages (Beijing was a village!) to the modern era and even today 2021 as Europe’s largest metropolis, is Istanbul I think.
And that’s population. If we think strategic, imperial and iconic significance, Cnstple / Istanbul is even further ahead of the pack.
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He’s got probably the most followers in a YouTube historical data channel because of his double-checking consistency and reasonableness of data.
You should try Europa Universalis 4, it’s a far more historical, authentic, and respectable game.
So-called “Mongol Empire” is not a civ, it’s aptly modeled in EU4 as a loose multinational confederation for a short time, that you can form with Mongols, Turks, and Tatars equal partners at the core.
The Ottoman Empire is the strongest nation in EU4.
Mamluk Sultanate, Spain, and Persia feature among the top, as it was in reality. Large number of nations of all sizes and power levels allows for coalitions, diplomatic agreements, vassals, which balances everything out.
Give up on AoE4.
