Trash unit upgrades

I know we’re sticking as close as possible to vanilla gameplay here and I generally applaud this approach, but if I was going to suggest one major change it would be this: currently all trash units except the Chariot Archer cap off at tool age. Given the extremely limited quantity of gold in aoe1 (a feature I love and would not wish to remove) this can lead to few tactics being viable in low gold scenarios. I would really like to see bronze age upgrades for axemen, bowmen and scouts to give players the option to use trash units come mid-game to either help preserve gold supply or as a emergency last stand.

I mean Chariot Archers work wonders, but there is not much variety in gameplay there and not all civs get them. I would also like to keep gold rare and not be forced to make it a surplus resource just to have the game be balanced.

hmm… yeah i think its a good idea but the trash units dont allowed that he better than a Bronze gold units

While new trash unit options could be nice, they are not going to add any new units as hey want to keep the gameplay as close to original as possible.

@qweytr24 said:
While new trash unit options could be nice, they are not going to add any new units as hey want to keep the gameplay as close to original as possible.

Yeah for the release it will not come but mabye with a new addon :smile:

ehm, I think you guys forgot about the chariot?, they can be upgrades in the iron age (into scythe chariot). Of course this costs money, but after you got the upgrade you don’t have to spend any penny anymore on getting them.

Jihad should let villagers throw hunting spears at enemies xd

@ABetterBadger said:
Jihad should let villagers throw hunting spears at enemies xd

No way! Villagers having spears/bows yet unable to use them against anything else than wildlife are a staple of the series, most iconic AoE logic example :lol:

Making units like Slinger, Axeman, or Bowman to be upgardable would make this this game totally different.
Slinger+Axeman is great early game combo and it shouldn’t scale so well to mid/late game.
Right now if you do Axeman’s you have high pressure to make it effective quickly, or otherwise you are at disadvantage when the enemy starts making bronze age units.

Yeah, any change with units would change the gameplay too much from the original. I feel like that would do more harm than good. Also,

@FlatSky72519129 said:

@ABetterBadger said:
Jihad should let villagers throw hunting spears at enemies xd

No way! Villagers having spears/bows yet unable to use them against anything else than wildlife are a staple of the series, most iconic AoE logic example :lol:

“Hmm, I have this throwing spear, but I really should just whack that guy with a huge bone twice my size”
or
“Hmm, I have this powerful bow, but I really should just shank that knight with my tiny shiv”
Took the villagers until the 1600s to figure out they can shoot humans, too!

@SlinkyDrop69409 said:
Making units like Slinger, Axeman, or Bowman to be upgardable would make this this game totally different.
Slinger+Axeman is great early game combo and it shouldn’t scale so well to mid/late game.
Right now if you do Axeman’s you have high pressure to make it effective quickly, or otherwise you are at disadvantage when the enemy starts making bronze age units.

No I agree. The huge leap in effectiveness from Tool to Bronze units are an important part of aoe1s gameplay.

What I’m really after here is some sort of solution for non-chariot civs to at least do something when gold is empty. Currently a few gold bought Cavalry can kill armies of Tool Age trash. The solution doesn’t even have to be new units - maybe an Iron Age upgrade that made non-chariot trash scale better with attack/defence upgrades. Just to make them a bit more viable lategame.

If we don’t do something then I’m afraid they will make gold piles last much longer, for balance reasons. And I certainly don’t want that to happen. The rarety of gold is integral to the unuiqe feel of aoe1.

I do like to see a bowman bonus in the iron age. For example better bonus against chariots and academy units. That could move the game a bit for the non-chariot civs.
And also an even better slinger bonus against mounted archers (chariot archers, horse archers, and elephant archers)
As for axemen, I like that they benefit from the 1/2population upgrade. But if that isn’t enough, maybe also an bonus against chariots?
I’d also like to see a better camel upgrade for the iron age. An heavy camel maybe: moves a bit faster (as fast as a heavy horse archer) and slightly more attack and hp.

@LegoVogel said:
I do like to see a bowman bonus in the iron age. For example better bonus against chariots and academy units. That could move the game a bit for the non-chariot civs.
And also an even better slinger bonus against mounted archers (chariot archers, horse archers, and elephant archers)
As for axemen, I like that they benefit from the 1/2population upgrade. But if that isn’t enough, maybe also an bonus against chariots?
I’d also like to see a better camel upgrade for the iron age. An heavy camel maybe: moves a bit faster (as fast as a heavy horse archer) and slightly more attack and hp.

Chariots are countered easily enough in the iron age. It’s only the bronze age they are overpowered in. Heavy cavalry is already rather weak and adding upgraded camels would only make them less viable.

Axemen are not something that should counter chariot archers. They are exactly the kind of unit chariot archers should be good against. Slingers on the other hand could have an increased bonus against them.

@qweytr24 said:
Chariots are countered easily enough in the iron age. It’s only the bronze age they are overpowered in.

Yes. When you’ve got the gold… In really late game (when gold is scarce) chariots are OP again.

Axemen are not something that should counter chariot archers. They are exactly the kind of unit chariot archers should be good against. Slingers on the other hand could have an increased bonus against them.

No with that I meant Axemen to counter melee chariot, like the scynthe chariot. For example: axemen don’t get affected by trample damage.

@LegoVogel said:

@qweytr24 said:
Chariots are countered easily enough in the iron age. It’s only the bronze age they are overpowered in.

Yes. When you’ve got the gold… In really late game (when gold is scarce) chariots are OP again.

Axemen are not something that should counter chariot archers. They are exactly the kind of unit chariot archers should be good against. Slingers on the other hand could have an increased bonus against them.

No with that I meant Axemen to counter melee chariot, like the scynthe chariot. For example: axemen don’t get affected by trample damage.

I see. New upgrades could be useful for that purpose, but they are not going to add any new units and most likely not technologies either, so all that can be done is to tweak the stats of the existing units and I don’t think there are any tweaks that could make tool age units competitive against a scythe chariot that’s entire purpose is to slaughter all weaker units around them.

For example: axemen don’t get affected by trample damage.

Lol, deffinitively not. Morevore, its impossible too anticipate what become op after aoe-de becouse if you change pathfiting / atta moove, itcan be more benefitial for mele unit.

@qweytr24: Yes. But still it would be nice to see axemen and archers coming back in the late game instead of building a handfull in the Tool age.

@LegoVogel said:
@qweytr24: Yes. But still it would be nice to see axemen and archers coming back in the late game instead of building a handfull in the Tool age.

this is exactly what should not happen. Main difference between AOE1 and AOE2 is that early game units can’t be upgraded to match late game units.

upgrading the trash units (axemen, slingers, bowmens) would unbalance the game a bit IMO. Melee centered civs will get a slightly bigger advantage in bronze/ iron age, pushing the trash until the enemy is out of gold. Maybe simply tweak the chariot archers? mass chariot was and will be annoying and devastating. We could take it by simple logics: its going to be harder for a horse to carry a chariot+ a man in it. cavalry should be faster than chariots, and elephants slower than chariots by a small %.

The only new units I think that should definitely be added is a bronze/iron age upgrade for the slinger so you are able to counter chariot archers with slingers which do not cost gold. And an iron upgrade for the camel rider. That is all.

axeman should get some love at the iron age maybe make it like -1 at and -10hp from broadsword man.
basically like hussar meat to the field