Tuning the Byzantine Romans

How to tune the Byzantines:

  1. Byzantine architecture set
  2. Replace their champions with Varangian Guards (cosmetic).
  3. Replace their hand cannoneers with cheirosiphon (cosmetic).

Byzantines do not need buffs per say.

  1. As the elite unit of the emperor, Varangian is not a Barracks unit, it belongs to the Castle; while the Byzantine Champion represents the western feudal knights employed by the empire for generations.

  2. Cheirosiphon is a siege related unit, not archery.

Both absolutely should not be wasted, being cosmetic units.


So you argue that because Varangian Guards were historically an elite unit, that means they should not be a replacement for the champion?

Hand cannoneers are not archers and portable cheirosiphona were widely used in wars. It’s name is CHEIROsiphon afterall i.e. HAND-siphons.

Varangian Guard is the Eastern Roman equivalent of Huskarls and Druzhina.

If Varangians are to replace champions, so should Huskarls

I’d rather have their spear line revamp to Skoutatoi as a tankier Halbs. This way, they could compliment with their 25% disc bonus.

Even if made so small, formation fire will not counter it? fair enough.

I know that players have wanted this for a while, I have only seen them in campaigns.

I was actually worried that SE would overpower them. They are intentionally balanced with weak siege yet given a BBC so they could use it defensively.
The thing is Byzantine cavalry play has been very good in the past to the point that I have listed them as a top four Paladin civilization when the player knows what they are doing. It seems weak only on paper. Changes made me consider Bloodlines.

I am not sure that said unit could be balanced here. I know it was in Castle Siege.

Byzantines do not need buffs imho.

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Not every unit needs a fancy version of thr standard units

  • Cheirosiphon, a portable flamethrower illustrated in a siege warfare manual, being used from a siege ladder against a castle.
  • Lets replace with it a unit I know that carries something portable, the Hand Cannoneer, regardless its irrelevant role…

How about “no” to this logic?

Yes, and not only this, as I mentioned.

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[quote=“Prokman7582, post:30, topic:247469”]

  • Cheirosiphon, a portable flamethrower illustrated in a siege warfare manual, being used from a siege ladder against a castle.[/quote]

If you are going to copy paste Wikipedia, do so for the entire section about the portable cheirosiphons please. Otherwise you are misleading.

I do not understand this sentence. Can you try to make it a bit clearer please?

How about no to this logic?

It doesn’t need a buff now, but with more civs coming in sooner or later old civs needs to be revamp to adapt. This is just me saying, if Byzantines indeed get their rework, I’d rather have them reinforce on what they already good at, to solidify their identity as a defensive civ.

It doesn’t have to be a unit rework either, we can use the Sea Tower & Sea Walls for example, for sea defense, or they get the Fortified Palisade Walls instead of the ordinary ones.

Don’t get me wrong. Currently, I think the best representation of Byzantines is in AOE4 and not in AOE2. So I do think that the Byzantines could be reworked a bit. The four things I see possible are:

  1. Give them Greek voice lines
  2. Give them cheirosiphons as a replacement to Hand Cannoneers. The unit will have a bonus vs siege units rather than infantry (enhances defensive nature). The unit cost can be high, the range can be shortened for balance.
  3. Give them Varangian Guards as a replacement to the Champion. They could follow the same philosophy as the devs did for Savar. i.e. fewer hit points, more armour.
  4. Give them fire towers; just make sure the dmg output is the same as a normal arrow tower but with a small bonus against siege.

This can be done in a DLC that includes Serbocroats and Wallachians (maybe Catalans too to finish up European civs imho).