Can a new horse people add something new which is not already covered?By new I mean something technical in the tech tree not a geographical location as we already have overlapping civis factions.
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No one else cares about regional units the way you do. Stop shoehorning them into every discussion and then getting upset that no one else wants to talk about them.
What other name could Anatolian Turks have? Ottomans are a dynasty name that did not evolve into an ethnic name, and on the top of that they weren’t even the first Turkish dynasty to rule there. Names like “Anadolu” or “Rumi” would be very confusing.
It’s slightly more complicated than that because most Turkic languages don’t have this distinction between “Turkic” and “Turkish”, it was only created in European languages after Atatürk proclaimed the Republic of Turkey and there appeared a need to differentiate between Turks of Turkey and other parts of the world.
But I agree it wouldn’t really be a “split” because Turks in the game are very Ottoman-era focused with the Janissary as the Castle UU and no later additions like the Steppe Lancer or the Qizilbash Warrior.
IF the Jannisary only existed in the Imperial Age as the Hand Cannoneer replacement, and the Castle UU was some non-gunpowder horse dude, I’d say the civ would cover both the Seljuk and the Ottoman Turks pretty well. But would the community accept such a rework? Turks play fine the way they are.
I too find theorising civs that combine different regional units fairly interesting. A lancers and elephant civ might be fun to play.
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Huns, Bulgarians and Cumans come to mind… perhaps Magyars too.
I suppose but how many of them go “ah my classification is clearly infantry and cav archer. Right right!”
Plenty more than can be gained from adding more European civs.
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Turkmens, Turcomans, Rumi, Hagarenes
“Turkmens” and “Turcomans” share a similar problem to “Turks”: they are too wide, and I’d argue even less fitting than the current name, because nowadays they are used primarily to refer to Turks outside Anatolia, like Seljuk and Zengid dynasties or the Azeris. Fine for me, but in that case at least add Steppe Lancer or Qizilbash to the Stable.
First time I see “Hagarenes” but it seems to refer to Arabs primarily or Muslims in general.
Hagarenes is used in Alexiad for referring Seljuk Turks while Fatimids is called as Saracens.
I wouldn’t want Steppe Lancers if they come at the expense of a nerf.
I don’t think there needs to be a different name. And neither did you. And neither did seemingly anyone else.
You don’t need to give Turks another name to split them.
But the moment the subject is 3k suddenly 3k apologists believe splits can’t occur with name changes.
I’m just pointing out the ad hoc post rationalization used to defend those who would lie to us.
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You don’t have to bring this point again every time people suggest a split without requiring a rename. That clearly has caused confusion.
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Rutherians seem to be what we got, and yes I can definitely see Muscovites as a sort of steppified counter unit civ that doesn’t want horde invaders (but not defensive) but Novos? No idea? Could be a naval civ? Varangian guard types if my knowledge holds.
I think Sogdians are like the civ that has the most crossroads. Nevermind they’re a big trade crossroad (Caravanseri ergo fits) they were steppe had elephants and desert camels and even did trading with China extensively to possibly justify rocket technology of some sort.
And I forgot the name Afghans they’re Ghurids and Ghaznavid. And they conquered Gurj lands so it’s possible they adopted some
I assume you mean the Elite Janissaries.
Since Janissaries are worse than Hand Cannoneers in every single aspect, they can’t replace them. Elite Janissaries could be, however, a unique upgrade of the Hand Cannoneers. But that would be way too big change for an AoK civ, I can guarantee you most players won’t like it.
And another cavalry unit will likely be wasted, whereas the absence of the Janissaries will gonna hurt.
Decent idea but has so many drawbacks.
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What are you basing this off of? Don’t get me wrong i’d love to see the current Slavs civ renamed Ruthenians, but you state this as though you have some confirmation that it is happening.
Nothing official but it feels very European without a Viking flair
European civis can atleast have UUs that are ships,every horse people will just have a CA or LC type unit as uu and civi bonus.
Adding something like Africa or South asia is a better choice than adding more and more overlapping similar civis.
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All three of those (Ruthenia just meaning Russia in latin) came in close contact with the steppe and turkic people since their dawn, including “incorporating various steppe techniques”. It’s no surprise that to the Greeks, the Rus and Scythians were synonymous, at least according to Leo the Deacon.
Just a few links that come to mind:
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Yeah. Current Slav navy is weak so Novgorodians would be distinct enough mechanically. Not saying we should have them, I’d prefer the game to fill Africa and the Americas in the incoming years, but it’s an option and Nevsky already has a decent custom campaign.
I was thinking about normal Janis replacing HC by default (so a slight nerf) but being upgradable to Elite.
I’m not an AoK/AoC purist like some other members but yeah, it’d feel like a change for change’s sake, especially when there are other civs with gunpowder units in the Castle Age.
This is true but I think I’d still keep the current Slavs (Ruthenians/Kievans after renaming) without the Steppe Lancer. Muscovites would be a gunpowder and lancer civ.
I think Turks, Tatars and Cumans represents nomadic Turkic people enough. For example Göktürks; the name of Göktürks is invented by historians. Göktürks called themselves as Turks or Turuks. Chinese and Iranians called them without adding a Gök- in front of their name also. Let’s say Turuks. On the other hand there is Franks in the game. They have throwing axeman for UU, cavalier bonuses and gunpowder units as BC and HC. We don’t need an extra French or a Frankish civ in the game because Franks represents all history. Let’s turn back Turuks. Turks have some bonuses for mounted units like free update and extra armor for LC, extra hp for CA. I think it is enough to represent Turuks by Turks as same as Franks represent French. Moreover there are Tatars and Cumans in the game too. They have bonuses for mounted units moreover they have SL and mounted UU.
If we need more accurate representation for Turkic people, there is a list. However as @Mahazona said before those civs will be CA, SL civs with bonuses for mounted units.
Göktürks
Cavalry archer civ. Fast, cheap CA, SL. Weak economy because Göktürk homelands has harsh conditions to live and Göktürks had to pillage neighbour people. They have pastures. Weak siege units because Göktürks didn’t have advanced siege machines as Mongols had. UU is Alp that is CA. It can gain food while fighting. UT can tranform its wood cost to food cost so Göktürks can train more Alp by pillaging.
Khazars
Cavalry archer and defensive civ. Khazars were tolerant people from different religions. Monks can convert faster so enemy units can join faster to Khazars. UU unit is Khazar Raider is mounted version of Composite Bowman. UT is Scorched Earth gives Khazar a unique defence. I think everybody know ths tactic. Khazar buildings cause damage to enemy units slowly when they attack.
Uygurs
Steppe Lancer civ. More advanced version of Göktürks. Better economy and siege units. They have farms instead of pastures. UU is Uygur fighter that is better version of SL.
Huna
They are known as Heptalites but Heptalite is a dynasty name. Huna is a better. Cavalry Archer civ. They have some trade bonuses because of controlling trade roads. They may have siege elephants. UU is Huna raider that is CA version of Tarkan. They use fire arrows to damage buildings.
Azerbaijanians
Iranian Turks. The name is a bid force because these people called themselves as Turks also. However their population is dense in Azerbaijan region of Iran. UU is Qizilbash. Spahi is an regional update for knight. Faster than paladine but has less armor. It may be given to other Eastern civs and Turks UT Spahi may rename as Akinji.
I’m not sure Khazar and Uygur temples and monks. Khazars have Tengrist, Jew and Muslim population while Uygurs have Tengrist, Budist, Mani and Muslim. Looking of their temples and monks be multi-religional and its will be imposible to distinguish which religion do they represent or Khazars can be first civ that build synagogue and Uygurs, Mani temple.
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