Remove the free Scout Calvary upgrades and add +1PA to camels and free Husbandry. Free light cavalry gives Turks too much of an advantage when contesting relics and free hussar contributes to a ridiculous imperial age power spike which only aids their arena gameplay. In castle age free husbandry save 100G less, But is much more versatile on open maps as also helps with Knights Camels, and CA while still allowing Turks to contest relic wars. +1PA on camels is slightly more helpful on open maps where knights are more common I also find it really weird that Turks have no camel bonuses despite lacking pikemen.
Interesting approach, but what about this:
-Stable units +1 PA
-Free Husbandry
Lost Free light cav upgrades.
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While this would make them a viable pocket civ and i;m generally in favor of anything that shakes up the Teamgame meta. However 5 PA on knights is too powerful and unfair to archer civs if they go enough full pike you have Janissaries. Nevermind the fact that you have the gold bonus and free husbandry on top of that.
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We had +1 PA on camels for old indians, it was a mess in teamgames. Im not sure how it would play out on turks with their only eco bonus beeing the faster gold collection, but tbh i fear it would be pretty oppressive.
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knights with +1 PA would be utterly broken. Knights with +2/+2 currently basically dont take damage from xbows. Turks would be able to field +1/+2 knights the second they hit castle age.
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I don’t see how a bonus on camels would fit the Turks.
They were a steppe army (light cav + cav archer) that once settling focused heavily on gunpowder. The current bonuses are spot-on. They are not a desert civ as their centers of power were Persia (as the Seljuks) then Anatolia and the Balkans (as the Ottomans).
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Desert civilizations also didn’t use camels as war ###### ######### Abbasids, Ayyubids, Mamluks etc… Camel is mostly used as beast of burden, they were worse than horse at being war mount. Ottomans unlike Europeans used their Bactrian Camels for carrying. In one battle, European horses not used to Camels were panicked when they tried to raid Ottoman transport convoy but horses used to camel don’t panick against Camels, thus Camel counterinfg cavalry in the game also doesn’t make sense.
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Because they lack pikemen and only have generic camels. The reason this isn’t too big of an issue is that Calvary civs are not prevalent on Arena. if you want to them to be viable on open maps they either need pikemen or good camels.
I dont understand. You want to give that bonus so they perform better against cavalry civ on open map? I hardly see what does it change against knight
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Another knight civ? We don’t need another one to join the club of Franks, Burgundians, Poles, Lithuanians, Teutons, Bulgarians, Sicilians + Huns, Magyars, Persians, Berbers, Cumans, (Slavs, Khmer) as the list is already too long.
While that’s true, it is totally damaged the balance. Free husbandry will keep the steppe theme. However I don’t like Camel +1PA for them to compensate the free Hussar upgrade.
This true. But that’s not the whole picture. Turks W/R in Arabia is very respectable 48% from the last time I checked. Their lack of pikeman despite not being compensated by buffed camels, they can do okay against cavalry cvis thanks to CA and Janissary.
You do not want to use Knights to counter Camels, you can but only if you have a numbers advantage and while you are more likely to see pikes or monks as a counter to camels being able to take 30 instead of 24 hits helps.
True… I will go far away, just for fun… What if in exchange of +1PA to stable units Turks lost Cavalier upgrade?
I still think the best adaption for Turks would be a change to Sipahi.
Imo Sipahi should have an affect on all Gold Cavalry units (possibly even scouts). Ofc this kind of overlaps with the Zealotry tech if Camels get extra HP.
But from the Meaning of Zealotry it actually should enhance the Fighting power of the Camels + Mamelukes. Not the HP. It could add + 6 attack vs Camels and Cavalry for both Camels and Mamelukes instead. Or even generally increas all Bonus damage by 25 % pretty much like the Gurjara Bonus, but also applying to stuff like Skirmishers aswell. To all non-siege Units ofc as for Siege they already have counterweights.
Sipahi could just give +20 HP to Knights, Camels and CA for Turks.
If you think this is just a straight-up buff you would be right. And I think I woul even tweak the Turks with two other changes at the same time:
A) Janissaries (both versions) - 2 Attack.
B) All Units cost -10 Gold in Imp (ofc only those who have a Gold Cost)
Nerfing the Arena Clownery a bit and giving them a bit more flexibility in the lategame in the exchange. Esopecially a Champ switch might become interesting for them.
I understood you want to nerf scout free and instant upgrades on arena.
This is where i’m completely lost. You want to give +1Pa to turks camels because of knight huge presence on open map but +1 Pa doesnt matter in a melee fight.
If your opponents also has units that deal pierce damage This well help you keep your camels alive which will in turn help you counter their knights.
Still a knight civ that dominates archer civs. Knight will survive 60 xbow shots which is same as Paladin vs arbalester. You need to remove Bloodlines. But then Turks balance as well as historical accuracy collapse.
Why not +1MA instead? Gurjaras UT but free as a lower value.
I think they should have steppe lancer and give them free elite steppe lancer upgrade instead.
I’m okay with Turkish steppe lancer but giving them free elite wouldn’t solve the problem of Turk’s imperial age power spike
Give them the regular steppe lancer but not the elite, to show the loss of connection to the steppe as they settled in conquered areas.
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Two completely different approach on balance.