Turks could be given Trash Scorpions as a buff

Id argue that too. If not for some people who say even 400W trash scorps are OP

Even 200W is expensive

even heavy upgrade + siege engineer cost less than 12000 wood .

I guess that if a 500w scorpion is usles and a 100w one is op, then there should exist a wood cost between 100 and 500 such that the trash scorpion is balanced…

I mean, otherwise we have that a trash scorpion costing X wood is OP, and a trash scorpion costing X+1 wood is underpowered… which does not sound that intuitive

But this is my personal perspective ofc

Scorpions already counter 2 of the 3 regular trash units, Halbs and Skirms. And if massed enough, they can trade with Hussars. Making them cost only wood is also OP, since the Turks wouldn’t even need Farms, just wood.

As a result, Turks would go from having the worst trash war to arguably the strongest trash war.

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Exactly what i’ve been saying since hours… :rofl: and some people here just don’t understand

Could you please stop spamming my tag. If I want to respond I respond to the first time, not to the others.

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Sorry, maybe I mistakenly added you

A scorpion cost 75w + 75g. In a trash war this is around 500w.

400w scorpion is 20% discount. Slavs have 15% but SE and heavy scorpion upgrade (I assume heavy scorpion would be removed from turks).

Is this math correct?

So, if I write as a new bonus for turks: scorpions ate 20% cheaper, they are 400w in a trash war.

500w is what Khmer pay for a heavy scorpion with +1 range and SE.

400w is underpowered for a non heavy non SE scorpion.

Between 300 and 400 makes sense.

350w is 30% cheaper than Khmer one but only in a trash war, without SE, heavy upgrade, and +1 range

i must say your level of understanding what someone else has said seems to be a little off…

does that translate into “BROKEN OP” (rememeber bold AND caps)

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No, no and NO.

Imagine that… turks with the longest range bombard cannons AND trash scorpions. One way to counter mass scorps is with onagers and in this instance the bombard cannons wouldn’t even let the onager get close. It’s a terrible idea. Also siege weapons NEED to be expensive. The concept of cheap siege is just ridiculous in a way that cheap infantry or archers is not. Imagine the amount of engineering and labour and resources that goes into creating such machines in the Medieval period.

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Also turks have many ways of dealing pierce damage already, arbs, two different hand cannon units, cav archers, giving the scorpions is just giving them more of what they already have just in a different packaging. They badly need counter units, or a way to compensate for the fact that they DONT have counter units, trash scorpions will just overlook their lack of counterunits and just give them a ridiculous OP unit that will just win every game automatically… you might as well just give them the Cobra Car. :joy: :joy: :joy:

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Trash cobra car would be something original

What price shall they be? xP
5000 Wood?

To Ad hominem lovers I can only argue logically like

not a whole lot of logic in your retorts either, they are vitriolic personal attacks at best.

Stop these Ad hominems and discuss properly.

Good. I am so very glad and happy I could make you a tiny bit happier.

Now let us get back to actual discussion of this game?

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I think there’s merit to the idea, but I would have approached it differently.

For one, making scorpions so ridiculously wood heavy means they’re inaccessible in the early to mid game where scorps have legitimate uses - so instead of this being a buff, it’s actually a nerf. This is also especially true since the market prices for wood and gold are still “fair” in the early game.

Then of course, in the late game when you have a million villagers on wood and the market prices are set, this becomes OP.

Also, in team games it is a nerf, not a buff, as that amount of wood competes with one’s ability to make trade carts which is the preferable thing for turks to go for.

I suggest something else:

  1. Guilds cost only food.
  2. Their heavy scorpions can generate gold upon attacking units (a la Keshiks).
  3. Reduce the cost to upgrade to heavy scorpion to 75% of what it is.

That way, Turks will have a viable reason to make heavy scorpions and the whole thing doesn’t interfere with their early game.

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A civ with no SE and heavy scorpion (assuming no heavy scorpion for turks) would have no reason to go scorpions in imp. But I get your point. I think the idea was to make this trashpion a secondary effect of the imperial UT. So this fixes the use of scorpions in castle age.

Overall the problem is that people do not agree on a wood cost such that the trash scorpion is balanced.

Someone says it is impossible, but this is not intuitive to me as I said here:

Still this does not mean that it is necessarily a good idea. I mean, even if a balanced number exists (I believe it does) it may have other issues, like not fitting the civ…

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heres the problem. 3 or 4 scorpions can easily be countered. 12-15 or more cannot. so which price point do we balance them around?