Two New Civs

I have yet had a chance to play around with them yet. What does the community think of them and any issues with them yet or not?

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There is a big Coustillier bug (it deals double damage against Archer Armour type units) and First Crusade needs a nerf, but both 2 new civs are actually on the lower power-level of the bunch, and are pretty balanced.

In fact, they are underwhelming, when compared to Last Khans civs, in how much those shook the balance.


I still think Burgundians have too many eco bonuses

Thety absolutely do not. Aside from heavily discounted Stables techs (for which they miss Bloodlines, and I think they should miss Husbandry too, since they get asured Paladins in 1v1), they still have to pay for all those early Eco techs in full price, which is not even feasible in the Feudal Age.

At most, you are getting Bow Saw and Heavy Plow one Age earlier, but you are also delaying Castle Age for it.

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I’d prefer them not having plate barding armor for this exact reason:

They already miss Bloodlines, take their Armour away, and they will not be worth going for, which will result in the Coustillier having to become actually stronger than it it, because it will be the civ’s workhorse unit.

Personally I feel like I would prefer less or no discount for the upgrades over missing plate barding, and probably over missing “just” husbandry as well. For teamgames especially they need some sort of viable lategame options.

They just need to lose Husbandry, so Coustillier is forced to stay in fights longer.

No, it is simple. you can’t take both tech away from a cav civ. If they lose husbandry you should give them BL, and now we would be very angry about FU cavalier in castle and FU paladin at half price.

Coustellier just need a nerf to the charge bonus, somewhere from +20 to +25.

And sicilian should get a nerf to first crusade, i would prefer to cap it to 4 TCs, the other option is to keep it at 5 TCs, but give from 6 to 8 serjeants instead of 10

My opinions:

For Sicilians, nerf or heavily rework First Crusade (preferable).

Burgundians, bug fix Coustillier and nerf charge damage significantly. Possibly rework Flemish Revolution because it doesn’t really fit in this game.

Then let them sit for a month and evaluate how they are doing.

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Only the UTs and Coustillier charge damage are problematic. Their economies are pretty terrible. Sicilian economy could use a small buff in return for First crusade nerf as the civ itself is not overpowered

Elite Coustillier already have same melee DPS output as Paladin, why do they need massive charge attack to wipe half of enemy army at start? Like +25/+30 charge would be plenty (right now +35/+40).

First crusade provides too many units, like 35 should be max if they spawn so fast, and Flemish Militia are tad too strong so their anti cav bonus or stats should be tuned down just a little bit.

Give Flemish Militia spearman unit armor and make the UT cost dependable to the villagers number

They are fine as they will be balanced soon but the Unique Techs Flemish Revolution, First Crusade and the units Serjeant and Coustillier feel too gimmicky to be in AoE2. They might fit games like AoE3 or AoM. But they don’t have a space in AoE2.


That might actually work. It might lead to the tech being nore flexible in a sense, to less of a meta developing around when exactly to research it.

Although any pricing scheme will lead to situations in which it is more or less useful. One TC fast imp into siege and flemish revolution on arena maybe?

Burgundians are fine in terms of civ bonuses.

Their feudal age is ok, if needed they can research bow saw for extended fights. Cavaliers are fine in castle age.

In imperial I would say that they have a knight line superior to a generic FU cavalier, but overall weaker than, say, spanish. The timing only can be exceptional.

Gunpowder are ok, but HCs are underpowered in general, and BBCs are not that good without SE.

Regarding UTs and UUs there is a big issue. Personally I believe their UU should remain strong also in late game, being their real signature. It is difficult to say how the UU is. It will be nerfed (at list bug fixed), but, especially the elite version, should be a good way to go, considering that in the late game may be all.

The UTs are difficult to judge. They may be either OP or useless. I expect a nerf

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burgundians and sicilians not good as other high-tier civ. they don’t need any nerf except coustillier and first crusade. actually need some small buffs to civ bonuses.
i tried burgundians 20+ games, feudal of of them really bad, they haven’t any bonus to scout or archer or m@a. but in castle age with cavalier we seeing a spike. i often got die at feudal befoer my castle cavaliers

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First Crusade should just be limited to 3 TCs, not 5, so you would get 30 Serjeanst (still good), but not 50.

I think Burgundians should lose Husbandry, because they easily get Hussar and Paladin in 1v1, and have all the Blacksmith upgrades for them.

Coustillier without Husbandry (and with the Charge attack bug fix) would be far easier to deal with, after the damage spike, because they would not be able to easily retreat from fights anymore.

burgundian’s knight and scout line will be trash without husbandry. charge attack decrease enough for get balance for coustillier, they have 1.35 speed same with knight.
also 2 second speed deceleration can be good


I disagree, the Knights still gets +2 attack over the generic counterpart in the Castle Age, due to early and discounted Cavalier upgrade, and they get Paladin much earlier than everyone else, aswell as Gold making Farms.

Burgundians would still get better Cavalry than everyone else sooner, without Husbandry.
Teutons miss Husbandry and get +1/+2 Melee Armour in compensation, aswell as missing all Scout line upgrades.
Burgundians have all Scout line upgrades and get +2 Attack in the Castle Age, and earlier Paladins and Hussars than everyone else.

It actually still gives them their Castle and Imperial Ages powerspike, but keeps the UU in check.

I personally think that the new civs are somehow not bad, compared to the last kans civs at release.

Burgundians bonuses and tech tree is fine and balanced in my opinion. Their problem is the coustelier and flemish militia UT.

The coustelier is simply broken, not considering the archer bug, I think that they should cost more, and have a speed penalty while reloading the charge. Removing husbandry is a bad idea, since they would nullify having cavalier in castle. It matters little having 2 more attack if most civs either outrun you or have a stronger bonus (like teutons).

Flemish militia instead is a gg UT, either you win with it or you lose. I simply think that the UT should unlock a key for all vills that for a price can be transformed into militia, and the cost should be a bit lower than what you pay at the TC.

For the sicilians then it’s a bit more complicated, the first crusade UT is broken, but apart from that I also don’t think that their tech tree and bonuses are well balanced.

They don’t have a powerful late game unit, apart from halb+siege. Cavaliers too aren’t bad, but neither strong in my opinion.

Then the first crusade UT should give only 3 serjeant for TC, since it should be more of an help to you already existing army, not made you army just out of it. Then it cna have a secondary effect, like reducing the cost of the UU, similarly to what supplies do for the champs.