Two small concerns about Poles' and Bohemians' competitiveness

If I want to place the mills solely for the bonus, I think the bonus itself would be game breaking already. (Think about placing a mill between TC can already cover 3 farms)

Then you can’t use the folwark to it’s full extend. See what this leads to?

What? ^^

And I think that’s exactly how the devs intended it. Possibly gamebreaking but offset by the higher threat of incoming raids. The problem is that the ladder scales with the elo and therefore the potential bonus for poles is actually decreasing with elo. Therefore my concern that poles might be OP for casual players but trash at high elo because there they can’t really use their insane boost.

That might in the end the only thing you get at higher elos from that bonus (in the early game), as you just can’t justify to expose your eco too much, it would be too easy to exploit by the opponent.

potential second mill

Second mill for deer, in some case you would want that (in particular if you are doing early vill fights)
Also I think that it’s pretty normal to see players full walled while pushing military at early fedual age?

In the end I would say it’s too early to judge before we have more data tbh. We don’t even know how much farms it can cover, and/or if there are any other bonus to support it. Heck even if we have the numbers we can be wrong, People thought that burgundians eco bonus (without the 50% discount) is OP when release.

Not me, but ok that’s another topic.

I don’t judge. I just speak out a concern. I don’t know if I’m right with my conclusions but I post them now before it is too late.
If they don’t like that kind of concern Threads they should give more information.

I mean, it has to be quite a bit more than 10% at the very least

Maybe I got your points wrong. I guess you can have your concern now (and they are pretty valid by itself).

Maybe but I wont be surprised if it’s something like 5% as a minor bonus.

I mean that it has to be more than 10% simply because it has to be larger than the Slavic farming bonus

It does not have to be better than Slavs bonus. Think about Incas vs Lith bonus - Incas gets their delayed 100 food while Lith gets their instant 150 food which is strict up better.

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Think it must be at least 20 %. Wouldn’t make sense to make so much ado about it if the bonus wasn’t meaningful.

Could also be that the folwark harvests the nearby farms automatically at a low rate even if there are no vills around.

Tbh would be disappointed if it’s just a plain efficiency bonus, it’s just quite boring.

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I dont think that that is totally fair because Incas can scout with llamas.

Either way I think that the Inca llama needs to be buffed with Liths in the game (and also because its fairly underwhelming)

It sounds like it will be that way

Well incas has eagle which is pretty good at scouting only, so I think the vision bonus is pretty minimal.

By efficient maybe farmers can carry more food? That is still better than plain bonus (although convertable) (Well but we have Khmer bonus too…)

Don’t know. That bonus is actually not that strong anymore after wheelbarrow and heavy plow.
I see only 4 possibilities atm:

A) Farms have more food (sicilians laugh at you)
B) Farms food respawn is faster, mayber supporting more vills at a single farm (very odd)
C) Farmers collect faster/more
D) Farms are harvested automatically at a low rate

They’re both probably going to be late game civs like they were historically. Without the list of boni, you can’t say anything. I guess Poles will be getting something in relation to stone considering how much they emphasized the stone mines in the trailer.

And chinese smile

From the looks of it, their early game. Besides there’s lots of civs with a great eco that aren’t overpowered - just as there are with great cavalry.

If strongest cavalry will be the only thing going for them, I’m afraid they might in fact be even underperforming against all those Halberdiers and Camels.
We didn’t see them getting Paladins either, what concerns me a bit for a heavily cavalry-oriented civ.

I feel it’s too early to draw conclusions and we should wait at least until the release of both civs’ full tech trees before making assumptions.
I’m worried that we didn’t see any form of protection the Folwark could offer for farmers, hence perhaps rendering it useless in competitive play.

Yeah that’s what we made last time and the release of lotw was maybe the worst release in aoe2 history, because both civs were weird AND even didn’t perform as intended.
I thought FE would learn from that experience…

And there is so much potential in burgs and scilians, if they just would hear the voices telling them that the UTs are still too strong and sic just need something in addition to the serjeant, as the concept of a inf UU carrying a whole civ is just completely off. It can’t work. Either it’s OP or trash, as most civs just don’t have a direct counter to heavy armoured inf.
And Burgs would completely fine with just tuning down flemish revolution to an acceptable UT with acceptable value for the initial investment.

And for me it looks like they will do the same mistake again. And it makes me sad, as I see a lot of potential in those two civs.

they literally get a mill that is somehow going to generate extra food for all farms around it. that doesn’t scream weak early game to me.

like who? Franks? they’ve been nerfed numerous times and some people want them nerfed again, and are still one of the best performing civs in the game. Furthermore Franks also have a terrible late game. that isn’t going to be the case with poles.

if only you had a unique unit that was a good buffer against those.

no, they just get two unique techs that makes their cavalry better - on top of a solid eco and a great late game with the winged hussar.