Ultimate thread to nerf the remaining S tier civs

You cannot evade battles as your docks are attacked. Also longboats lose to galleons with same numbers (fedual fireship makes longboat much more common than before). Actually I think in nearly all games Vikings switch to Galleon sooner or later.

Again, if you nerf the longboats, they may lose to civ with no naval bonus on closed water maps. Thats why I think they need a buff elsewhere.

That might be true, because galleon upgrade is cheaper than elite longboat and it takes less gold.
Also in the lategame you will have enough docks to maintain galleon production way better than in the early or midgame.

But You usually open with longboats ( or switch to them in castle age) because of their snowball potential.

Yeah I also don’t see why longboats must be nerfed. Better reduce their ship discount a bit (5/10/20?)

I think you just don’t get it yet, once you remove mayans, azt, vikings franks and chinese, you will have tatars and other civs instead, cause the meta will move to the easiest civs to play with cheap dirt bonuses, thumbring for free is just the most powerful upgrade for ranged units in castle age, they also have the eco bonuses behind and solid military compositions.

In conclusion you will see the rise of tatars, burgundians, bulgarians, lithuanians, poles, cumans, malay, etc, there are civs with stronger bonuses than mayans and aztecs out there and with strongest tech trees and army compositions, there will be always civs above others.

Chinese were fine at AOC cause in order to get the extra vills you needed to use the vills to scout and luck to get sheeps close, but now they have granted to have the extra vills in all games, that is what makes them powerful, their cheap techs don’t have a real impact until mid castle and imperial age, they didn’t need the extra LOS on the tc, but now its too late to go back to their old style, the only thing that would balance chinese again is to lose heavy camel from their tec tree and give them a weakness when it comes to military defenses, idk why people is trying to nerf chokonu or their tecs when that is not what makes them powerful, the issue vs chinese is that they have the eco and the units to counter most civs, losing the heavy camel can make the difference.

There are have been too many buffs in these 2 years and bad civ designs that were never fixed, keep focusing in just the most popular civs is like trying to stop the light of the sun with one finger, the game needs a new balance team design to correct things once and for all, there is enough data available to do it.

Tbh a changing meta isnt a bad thing. Changing the top civs over time would be very interesting.

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You know, after literal years of Watchjng more or less the same civs at the top, some might br happy to see other civs for a little bit.

So yeah go ahead and nerf meso civs, vikings, franks, Chinese and lithuanians.

Then in a year nerf whoever took their place.

Because frankly it’s boring seeing The same civs dominate for years on end without seeing others get as much use.

Wouldn’t it be cool to see civs like byzantines, Spanish, and Koreans more?

Japanese and Persians on more then just hybrid maps?

4 Likes

Also it’s literally only been them since like forever.

With the exception of lithuanians now. And occasionally some other civs on crazy maps like mongols on land madness, Persians and Japanese on hybrid maps, indians on shore fish maps. Italian and Port on water.

They lose to equal resource, not equal numbers.

Agree with the statement but the civ example. Malay with these bonuses won’t be seen frequent at all. They are one of if not the hardest civ to play with full potential. Even in Arena where they are considered S tier for pros, not that much good performing outside of 2000+ elo. And for Lithuanians, after the last nerf, I hardly believe that will be the case. I think you should add Berbers instead. And maybe Huns.

11111111111111111111111111111111
Cheaper tech with extra villagers have big impact from mid to late Feudal.

And anything other than Vikings, Italians, Portuguese (Sometime Koreans and Japanese) in Islands. (As long as the pros actually want to play water maps unlike Hera who will just “Send it” - Vietnamese). Man, I have a big dream of seeing 10 civs if not as much as viable Arabia civ in water maps. Vikings, Italians, Portuguese, Japanese, Koreans, Saracens, Malay, Byzantines and some other civs maybe Berbers, Spanish, Turks, Persians all are very very close in water.

Thats my typo - longboats lose to galleon with equal resources

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In fact the galleon line (90 wood, 30 gold) is cheaper than longboat (100 wood, 50 gold, vikings bonus excluded for both bonus). I went on some testing with same number of longboat against war galley and actually it’s fewer resources for war galleys.


This is the result of 36 war galleys against 36 longboats with bodkin arrow and ballistics. I controlled the longboats so that they have good fire ranges while lots of the war galleys are spinning around initially. Longboats still lost.

(In case you wonder, the civ choice does not matter here as Vikings does not have bonus on naval units stats)

The game balance is not about being cool, the ensemble studios used to be professionals, they couldn’t finish the balance before they were tasked to do another game, FE are just like some of the same guys here posting crazy balance suggestion that somehow got in charge, they have done some good things but overall, for such an old game with millions of games and matches of high level, the game doesn’t need to test it out flemish revolution for one year to realize its a broken feature.

The game doesn’t need to exchange mayans for byzantines, the game needs to be competitive and some civs should perform weak in some areas but strong in others, current balance doesn’t follow any single rule about balance, last balancing changes are about strong civs at the start and stronger in late games, good luck balancing around that cause it is impossible, the way of their balancing needs to buff nonstop all civs periodically to prevent stagnation, look at people asking to buff civs that were already buffed a year or months ago.

Both chinese and franks are the result of boosting their early game to civs that were already strong in middle and late game, eagle civs were fine before the addition of the eagle warrior upgrade, they were weak as pocket and they are still are but now they are stronger in 1x1, i remember all their changes and they have been in charge of balancing for 9 years now, every single thing you think is broken its FE fault.

If you hire professionals to balance the game being completely unbiased, they could fix the balance in like 2 months after analyzing all the data available, dunno why you want to wait 1 year or 2 years until microsoft cuts the funds for the game as they have done multiple times in the past, to leave a mediocre balance and inconclusive, cause that is going to happen sooner or later(probably sooner cause aoe4), the difference btw you and me is that i have been there already, we were fooled thinking this game was a definitive edition, this game will be never be finished, if you are still around in one year you will see the same broken things under different civs thats all.

5 Likes

The OP aspect of the Britons is mostly on TGs when they are paired with other archer civ (esp Ethiopians and Mayans), however they aren’t that strong in 1v1.
Nerfing their TC won’t make sense as it only takes relevance for booming.
As for the range, I wouldn’t disagree if we nerf their extra range, currently their extra range makes Britons close to undealable with skirmishers and mangonels at early castle age, as their Xbows are comfy to abuse this range all time, you could move all range to Yeomen (+2 Range), in compensation increase the Longbow range by 1 (Like how the Lithuanians change work) so Britons players are more motivated to invest into castles and transition into Longbowmen as their main archer unit, so in this sense, Britons gain even +1 range in castle age than before, but their arbalester is strictly with less range in Imperial.

3 Likes

I really liek your idea of moving into yeomen, but only the UT applies to skirms too. Which would grant them now 10 range skirms.

I would just change the free range to an age independent, archer have +1 range starting from dark age. Ethiopians bonus works in feudal too after all.

Then I would change yeomen UT from +1 range to +1 damage (before you call this op, please remember Magyar UT exist). This also fits the already existing +dmg for tower from yeomen.

In post imperial age they loose 2 range (9 range arbs, and 10 range Longbows) but gain +1 dmg on their archers and they lose 1 range (back to generic) and gain +1 dmg above generic on their skirms.

In caslte without UT its the same, and with UT its 1 range +1 damage, instead of 2 range.

In feudal its a pure improvement with +1 more range.

Depending on the situation this isn’t even a nerf, but it helps delete those super frustrating sitstiin where you can’t even touch the sniper brits army

And I would definitely not compensate buff the Longbows to make this hole change pointless

Yeoman is very expensive though. Now one can get better value from that tech. But if Britons become dependent on that tech too much, I think that will be a big nerf. Right now one can ignore Yeoman and it is still fine. Maybe towers extra attack can be removed from the effect of the tech cost can be reduced a bit.

I honestly think this tech should not affect skirmishers at all.

It is way more strong to be a feudal bonus. Even in Castle it becomes out of hand when knights, E.Skirmishers, mangonels - all exists and yet struggle to deal with them.

It is OP. It has been explained a lot of the time. Magyars UT is an Imperial age UT, not Castle age.

If it comes with the cost of 2 range, then maybe it is not that much OP. But it shouldn’t be Castle age UT at any cost. Need to move to Imperial.

Why not change their Team Bonus with Magyars one then? Magyars CA play will be improved a bit. Besides it will give players a reason to choose over other Knight civ in TG - Franks, Lithuanians, Burgundians or even CA civ like Huns and Tatars. And both of the 2 Archer Civs in flank in TG - Britons + Mayans/Chinese/ or whatever it is - will take more time to build up archer numbers.

No place for the Sicilians here, they are not a S tier civ

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What about nerf the Eagles?

You can still nerf eagles yet the Mayans are OP

Yeah, I am having troubles finding good nerfs to Britons, as they feel well balanced in 1v1 and OP in team game. I would like to keep their identity as “instant +1 range to archer line in castle age but no thumb rings”. The +1 in imperial makes it too much, and I see no problem keeping the extra range to the Unique Unit.

My suggestion of nerfing TC cost was just because I thought it makes it too easy for them to boom while keeping up in military (also due to strong and safe crossbows). It may be too much or irrelevant though


I do not like the idea of moving the range bonus to dark age. I like the idea of britons being somewhat weak in feudal age. I was actually considering removing their team bonus and replacing with something not eco-related or archers-related.

I am fine with yeomen dealing +1 damage if the damage bonus is only for longbowmen and towers and not for crossbows. The +1/+1 of magyars cav archers is only in imperial on a unit that is hard to tech into in castle age (no bonus). While the britons already have +1 range (which is better than thumb rings) and +20% work speed on a unit that is already massed in feudal and castle age. I didnt check much on the Bohemians, but I think the balistics in castle age does a lot when you are one age behind or when you are fighting +2/+2 knights.

I think Mayans have OP eagles in 1v1 and OP archers in team games. Even without last archer armor upgrade and only +20hp with el dorado (instead of +40 hp), I still arguably have the best eagles and top-tier arbalesters with the -30% goth-level discount


Franks are a problem in 1v1 as well, I think the farm upgrades should be free but no instant to at least force the player to be mindful of researching the upgrade and chivalry should be 20% instead of 40%.

For Chinese i agree with the technologies suggestion, Chukonus are not really a big issue in most cases.

Agree with all the mayans suggestions.

Vikings
 make wheelbarrow and handcart free but no instant or instant but not free, I think this is their biggest issue, when they arrive to feudal let’s say they have a wheelbarrow of advantage, by the time their opponent researches it they will have 3+ vils (bc of the time to research), the time they had the upgrade and the opponent didn’t, and the resources +175f/50w as a whole in most standard cases that advantage is too much and that is just for wheelbarrow.

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I mean, Franks have counterplay here, is TG


Basically the Huns Team Bonus
Chivalry needs to change

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