I actually really like the idea of making them a mercenary Azap. It’d be a pretty drastic change from what the unit currently is though.
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Absolutely not. High melee damage Dragoons obliterate the counter system and are a horrible idea. Skrims are no longer a counter because they can’t cope with melee combat and can’t get away from such speedy units. There a massive disparity between the well designed light cavalry like Cav Archers, Dragoons, and Jav Riders, and the poorly designed ones with ludicrous melee attack and no counters.
The thing is that Azaps get more range as you buy their upgrades but you cannot do the same with Iron Troops. The problem of Iron Troops losing their effectiveness vs Goons (that they are supposed to counter) in the late game stands either way. They need more range from Koxinga as well, that card underperforms either way so.
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My solution to turn the iron troop into an azap type unit was to make it less redundant, as mentionned before. But of course, adjustments would be needed statswise.
That makes more sense - gives us a more uniform ‘azap-style’ unit type to stick to.
That is an amazing idea! Yeah, convert the iron troop into an elite mercenary version of a azap, it would make them useful for one. They have too much competition from the jaeger, or just good normal skirmishers lol. I’d rather have 20 Chinese arquebusiers than 20 iron troops, right now, but if they were super azaps, that would be a great idea.
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I like iron troops as they are, although the idea of a mercenary azap for china is interesting.
I don’t know if you’re talking at age 5 because you can’t update the mercenaries.
But if I have 20 iron troops I’ll make a sandwich for breakfast with the 20 arquebuisers…
Hope a few buff for Koxinga, or revert part of the nerf.
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If Jat Lancers are 3-pop, they should probably:
- have their 40% ranged resistance reduced to 30%,
- damage vs infantry reduced from 4 to 3.
Otherwise they are a bit too good for their pop count.
Agree. Black Riders should only have a speed of 6.5. To compensate, they can have a bit more ranged resistance. However, I wouldn’t give them more melee attack, as that would make them too versatile.
Agree. I actually have no idea on how to improve Ninjas, given that their sole purpose is to be an anti-merc merc. In any case, the 4 pop does need to be reduced to 2, to bring them in line with their cost of 200 coins.
That is a good idea. It would give the Chinese another anti-cav option, and compensate for both pikeman (fragile) and changdao (no good in general).
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Ninja could be tweaked into merc version of JPK or even Coyote Runner, making it a shock infantry
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Very good idea. There is currently no mercenary shock infantry. Ninja could fit into this role very well. Ninja should be able to stealth, and have a stat similar to the current Barbary Corsair (minus the bonus vs cav).
I’d also like to see Rattan Shields turned into Tiger Warrior shock infantry mercenaries.
I’ve read about them some time ago. Although I love their style and would love to see them in the hame, I wonder what would justify them as mercenaries?
I’d say they’re a bit too obscure to work as a unit in China’s main roster and Rattan Shields don’t really make sense as a Shaolin unit anyways. Plus they were used by Koxinga just like Iron Troops. Apparently they dressed as tigers to scare horses so they could get a bit of a bonus against heavy cavalry.
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I agree they wouldn’t fit as a main roster unit. I just had an idea. What if they added a chinese isolation option to the consulate, which would give access to the tiger warrior, a stronger version of the current rattan shield?
Maybe they could come with a pop cost and have +10% hitpoints and attack like other consulate units.
Isn’t the core issue of the Iron troop, that it is virtually just more of the same. Afterall china has what, 4 infantry units, two light skirms out of it and it is just a 3rd?
The bigger issue imo then follows for me atleast that they don’t have a way to get upgraded into imperial stats like european mercs nowadays do have, atleast from a single player skirmish point of view. Now if you’d make them applicable with the “reforms” card in Age 4 with the increased price of course that may alleviate some of it’s issues. But fundamentally it’s just another Chu or Arquebusier with an for chinese huge price tag.
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The concept of “Chinese Isolation” doesn’t make sense to me. China was never isolated in the way Japan was. There was always a huge demand for Chinese goods and the Chinese were happy to trade them for silver. They were just very arrogant and saw foreigners as barbarians with inferior goods so they didn’t accept anything other than bullion.
I get the desire to have an option that gives native Chinese options, but doing it through “Chinese Isolation” is kind of wrong. In my post about Taverns/Monasteries, I mentioned unique Chinese units from a Teahouse so that could be a limited way to do it.
Ultimately the problem lies in the fundamental flaws in the whole Consulate/Export system which needs a major rework if not scrapped altogether. It’s not integrated into any other game mechanics and it artificially limits the native Asian units by replacing them with European ones. I think it should be reworked into a new feature that is unique to East Asian (China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam) instead of for all of Asia. If there continues to be a 4th resource, I’d change the name to something like “Mandate” instead of Export.
Japan - Could retain something similar to the current consulate with options of Portuguese, Dutch, Isolation, or Americans.
China - Consulate should revolve around the tributary system with options like Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, and Ryukyu. Maybe an option for a European relation in age 5.
Korea - Could have options like Ming, Manchu, or Joseon to represent the different Chinese suzerains and native Korean influence.
India - Shouldn’t have a Consulate at all. Give them actual Mughal cannons.
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Well it seems like the Chinese adopted some kind of isolationnism through their history. It’s on wikipedia but maybe this would require further verification, I don’t know. Isolationism - Wikipedia
Yeah, I read your post, not a bad idea imo.
They could rework the consulate/export system, but I wouldn’t want it gone. Of course, there’s room for improvement.
Tiger Warrior were a Qing elite force. They would better work as a special Home City unit (like Sipahi or Urumi) for the Chinese.
However, the we can have the Wolf Troop (Famous Military Unit of the Ming Dynasty — Lang Bing (狼兵) | Great Ming Military) as a Shock Infantry mercenary. They were ethnic minorities in Southern China that were hired by the Ming, and were known for skills in melee and poor discipline. They fought against Wokou pirates and participated in the Imjin war, so they are definitely within the timeframe.
Zouaves? 3 pop is too steep imo, for a unit type that has basically no counter ability.
Armored Pistoleers, more a pet peeve, but shouldn’t italy get a infinite card of them due to Savoy forming italy? Also 4 pop is honestly a bit absurd since they simply can’t compete with other 4 pop mercs, like the Mamlucks and Saanar.