Underwhelming Saracens?

So this is my first time posting and as a moderate long time player of the game. I can’t help but feel the Saracens are a little underwhelming (and pretty much always have been).
I just feel that their unique tech of “madrasah” is pretty irrelevant. Not to mention their overpriced and under powered unique unit.
Would it not be more historically accurate to have a bonus of increased fire rate to foot archers? (Say by 20/25%)?
I feel this would make them a much more effective team in the mid - late games.

madrasah definitely sucks, mamelukes are overpriced but not underpowered if you ask me.

Ethiopians already have this bonus.


I agree that their camel play feels a bit weak. But Saracens mostly played as an all-in castle age archer civ either way, atm. At least with a decent map, it can be very powerful civ because it’s basically impossible to both match their castle age and army. Even if they don’t rush to castle age but go fast feudal with 1 range they still can have a very good uptime. But it’s also risky, especially on the more open arabia generations after the map update probably not the greatest strat anymore.

Thing is, all-in archers with market abuse and booming are kind of mutually exclusive so you don’t see them going for camels oftentimes. Not sure, if balancing can do a lot here. Maybe nerfing the archer bonus dmg a little bit while buffing their camel options might do the job.

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I think killed Mamelukes needs to return 10 gold.

or just make them cost 10 less gold.


Yea I always wondered why Ethiopians had this 15% fire rate bonus. Surely they would benefit more from a unit speed bonus or less food cost since they are historically famous for high altitude running.
I struggle to find a solid use for the Mameluke when you can just load up on heavy camels with archers in Support.
Like I say I would class myself an average player. But just find the Scaries could do with a few tweaks to round them off.

True, madrasah needs rework.

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Saracens themselves are in a pretty good spot I would say. Tricky to play, but surely have a lot of potential for unique strategies with their market setup.

I do agree though that it is pretty sad to have their UU basically being useless. I would like to see that buffed a bit to give them something unique for their lategame (which is overall pretty good already though).

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Refreshing the Saracen’s camel identity would most likely happen in their late game, is my guess if it happens. Say, removing the Imperial Age archer bonus damage and easing the hard tech switch from Castle Age Crossbows into Imperial Age Camels with a lower Mameluke/Zealotry cost.

I also agree Madrasah needs a rework. Considering “madrasah” means “school”, from a thematic point of view I think Madrasah giving a three-way Monastery bump from a slightly faster working time with slightly cheaper Monks and upgrades could be a good idea.

I personally think that Saracens have great monks tech and great monk rush using market abuse is great design in Historical sense. And also castle age UT (which is irrelevant to early castle monk rush) also fits their identity.
Madrasah does not need replacement but some buff/tweak. I think reducing monk base cost (instead of refund after die) would be good for using monks in mid-late game.

Or maybe make them affected by madrasah? They would return 28.33 gold.
I know that mamelukes are not related to schools (madrasah) but we could interpretate that imans are telling their people to defend their faith…

I like that there is one civ that can apply pressure to buildings with archers.
This bonus would kill their early game and make OP their late game.

That being said, their UU and castle age UT do need some changes.

This isn’t much of a factor in the game.