Unique flavor card buff and rework ideas

Inspired by the brilliant Spanish Gold rework, I went on a bit of a tangent thinking of new ways to make some currently competitively-irrelevant flavor shipments both more flavorful and competitive.

So you know my bias, I main China and Lakota, and I dabble w/ ports and france. Notably, the Asian civs have more reworks b/c they each have many more unique shipments. It also seems appropriate to give them some new viable options since they didn’t get much new content with DE.

Lemme know if there are any that you like!

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I like the russia card (cause I main russia, never made sense to only be falcs and mortars only) but I really like the idea of having cards that have negatives. So really good positives but big negatives. Let’s add more flavor into it.

My thought on some of the cards:
Spanish:
Tercio:
The Spanish also mixed pikes with muskets. I think it could stay in colonial. Not sure if changing the resistance of pikes to range is a good idea it makes them worse at dealing with melee cavalry.
They leek any cards that boots musketeers to that would be good chance.
Idea: Pikes increase the melee resistance of nearby musketeers/skirmishers while musketeers/skirmishers increase the range resistance of nearby pikes. Not stack able or stack able but capped like 1-5% for each but 15-25% max.

Germans:
Solingen Steel:
I think the slower but stronger concept is interesting.
Maybe making reducing the sleep reduction to -25% but only increasing the damage by 25% might be nice. Or just booting the HP by 75-100% with no attack boost.

Ottomans:
Mosque Construction:
The original card doesn’t seem to be to useful. 60% would be too much. The higher build limit wouldn’t help much other than giving a small xp boost.
My idea is giving mosques an aura like teepees but longer range because you only have one.

Japan doesn’t need buffs.

Aztecs:
The card needs a more interesting rework I think. Same with Haudenosaunee. Support should maybe just be cheaper from the start.

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I think that the concepts are cool, but in practice, cards that have negatives effects attached to them are just not worth sending over cards that don’t have any strings attached. The church cards are a great place for that since they also often come with a large unit shipment, so the trade-off is very optional.

Solingen at the time was a village in Germany that was producing very good steel, and a lot of it. It wasn’t heavier, and it wasn’t used for armor. So really, the extra HP and the speed penalty don’t make sense in terms of flavor, and it’s not a worthwhile trade-off anyway.

Not sure what you mean here. 60% is the current effect. And yes, the higher build limit would give an XP trickle, which is the point. Mosques give .7 xp for 100 wood, so an additional 4 mosques would give 2.8 xp trickle, which is almost as good as 3 TPs, and it would fit the flavor. This isn’t great for an age 3 card, which is why I figured the previous effect could remain. Perhaps instead of keeping the current effect, Mosque XP trickle could be increased to 1 xp /sec.

No, Japan doesn’t need buffs, but they do need alternative build options. If they have alternative build options, then it might even become possible to nerf the shrine build without making japan completely unviable. Besides, this isn’t about civ balance as much as it is about card balance.

I agree. I’m thinking about something warrior-priest related, but haven’t come up with anything solid yet.

New idea for Aztec’s Religious Unity: (moved to discovery) reduces cost of Temple and Ally shipments by 25%, and each “Temple” shipment also sends 1 warrior priest, and increases the warrior priest build limit by 1.

Also change the useless cards like "advanced mill, advanced estate and advanced market for example. They become useless with the Land grab… Perhaps if they give a bonus to milling or give a production building they wouldnt be so bad

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There’s a lot of cards that need to be reworked, for sure :slight_smile: The change from levelling up and unlocking cards slowly really make some cards make no sense (one of the European nations (Dutch maybe?) has two cards that send two heavy cannons in Industrial. One of them is infinite. The other is not. That is the only difference. Russia has two non-infinite Heavy Cannons cards, with completely different text.

The Advanced cards DAC mentions I want to like. It’s cool that they stack with Land Grab, but it’s impossible to justify them when they use up so many slots in your deck and take so many shipments to send. Maybe an Advanced Construction card that works like the Church cards? You get all of them as upgrades somewhere. Wouldn’t make them too overpowered which is a risk if they’re combined or buffed in other ways, gives you more options with them, and might warrant an inclusion.

For you cards, the only comments I have are that the Haudenosaunee, Chinese, and Ottomans feel like the cards are addressing the wrong problems. Chinese eco isn’t what needs buffing, especially not with villages. Haudenosaunee support cards just don’t do anything, that’s why they’re bad. It’s an awkward combination of resources and units, at a cost, and you never need both that resource and that unit at the same time. I don’t think making them cheaper would help, they need to do something more interesting instead, like the Lakota or Aztec ones. Ottoman Mosque build limit seems weird. I get that the idea is the xp trickle like you explained, but it seems like a weird way to approach the problem.

You have a lot of cards dealing with the market as well. Just a comment, not a criticism, I don’t know if putting more emphasis on the market is a good or a bad thing, just something to be aware of.

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The goal of these reworks is to open up new playstyle options for players. China’s economy isn’t bad in fortress age considering the extra wonder, but they don’t have any economic options in commerce. The village cards also open up new age-1 openers, as the villager card is more valuable if sent w/ more villages. Currently china’s opening options are very awkward and limited.

I agree that the haude support cards are awkward. I think making them cheaper might make them viable based on sheer value, but still, it would be better to rework each card individually. Ultimately, they cost tons of coin, and fortress age haude is way too coin-hungry in the first place. I hadn’t conjured up the motivation to come up with something different for each one, but I might.

I agree that Mosque Building is a bit awkward. I was kinda going for flavor the best I could there, but it’s not one of my favorites. We can probably cross that one off.

yup, there’s definitely a theme there. I think adjusting market factors is a cool and interesting concept, and there’s a lot of room for it as a value-booster for certain underwhelming cards. It just isn’t good enough by itself to ever justify sending advanced market.

lol, that rusia card is useless compared to others civs card you add. Maybe it would be better if also it adds 50% more hp blocao card together, and 50% less timet o build blocao, only on this i would send that card. All this together

samurai cannot be changed to range resist, nothing would kill it except cannons and urumi

but honestly i wouldnt take in consdieration any of your cards, seeing that you want to buff doppensolder. -50% coin is just ridiculous and +33% hp even more ridiculous

Some cards need to be balanced with other civs cards. Why are the Inca getting fattened llamas but the other civs need to fatten their animals? Is it balanced? I dont think so.

And yes the advanced cards should either be combined with the buffs like sustainable agriculture or merged like princess Said.

Then there are new cards that should be changed in age. Medicine for example, cuts vils cost in 15%, why is it on the 3rd age? Its clearly an age 1 card that should compete with 3vils (and for ports it would make a lot of sense to get it on age 1 instead of eco theory for example).

With this said i feel that more than your proposals (which are a proposal, but i dont think they hit what needs to be done) there should be a generalized push for a grand card rebalance in order to eliminate useless cards (or group them) and rework the cards to the new meta

russia card yeah maybe useless. I wasn’t sure if this affected treaty or something so I wasn’t sure how much hp/attack is appropriate for blockhouses.

samurai and dopps never see play past age 2, and these are age III cards. it’s possible that these changes are too drastic, but it’ll certainly require some above-average shipments to make this unit type viable in the late game.

The numbers are certainly up for discussion. The given suggestion for Solingen Steel is -50 not -50%, and +15% hp and damage. Not sure where you got +33% hp. so they’d be 75/75, which yeah might be too cheap. maybe solingen steel w/ these changes should be moved to industrial, or it can just be -25 coin.

if .3 is too much, it could be reduced. Other heavy infantry and strong muskets would likely still trade well since the melee resist would be lost.

Definitely. There are many more useless cards that need reworking. It’s just a much larger though experiment when the cards, like advanced buildings, are shared by so many civs.

Balancing is bigger than just comparing two individual cards though, it’s the whole civ. Do Fattened Llamas give Inca an overpowered economy compared to other civs? I haven’t really heard anyone make that complaint. Would Fattened animals make Swedish Torps even more ludicrous? Very much so.

What about China and Britain who have the +300% gather rate from herded animals?

Or Lakota getting a 4 villager card in Age 1?

Different civs work differently enough that they can (and should) be balanced against each other even with cards of wildly differing power levels.

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