The wood drain is too much for kamandaran use in Castle age, the castle economy isn’t suitable for 60 wood units being spammed anyway. You’ve farms and TCs being built around, nobody goes kamandaran at this stage.
The persian problem was the smooth boom, and its nerfed now, kamandaran is overrated
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Yup.
It is essentially a Skirmisher that is worse against Archers, but better at everything else.
If I was to nerf Persians in any way, it would be removing Squires, as they already have Heavy Camel and Trashbow, so they could use a minor nerf to their counter-units.
It would not even make their Halbs bad, since they would essentially be the same as Potuguese Halbs, which are decent enough.
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For early castle yes, but in late castle you start having tons of wood with persians, since you will most likely go knights, which means food and gold. This means that you can already build up a mass of trashbows while you go up to imp and have a power spike which can sometimes be a bit unfair. I agree that kamandaran is not a huge problem, but I think that tech is way too cheap for what it gives you.
I think the price of Kamandaran and Trashbows, has been nerfed enough.
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Well, it isn’t just a 1 villager advantage, or as the OP stated, Mayan and Chinese would have the same high popularity and effectiveness. Where I disagree is that imo trashbows don’t explain this alone (as we’ve seen tons of Persian situation where it either didn’t win the game or wasn’t even use at all to win it) but rather because the starting ressources and the fact the faster TC keeps getting better and better as the game goes means it’s a much bigger villager lead that Persian would end up with.
I was in favour of similar stuff intially, but maybe the current solution is better.
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Did you ever play the chinese? It’s pretty input intensive to make sure everything you do works 100% smoothly. To get to a point so that you aren’t behind other players and then to actually get ahead of them, which is the possibility with the chinese if your execution is very good and your sheep were close. Chinese start with -200 food and -50 wood so that’s not a great eco bonus is it now? You have 3 extra villagers and you are behind in resources (after villager cost is taken into account) by 50 food and 50 wood. Of course it’s still good cause you have double the starting workers, but it’s easy to get into an idle tc mode even after researching loom, plus other players will start making new vills straight away unlike you so the lead will only be 2 (+ loom). A lot can go wrong in that. Which is why when you are making it out to be like its just more starting villagers and nothing else, you are giving out the totally wrong impression just to support your own argument.
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Totally agree. Though Mayans have a very strong start, Chinese are not op by any means and tricky to play correctly. Persians having their dark age bonus of +50F / +50W is nice, and enough. Too many dark age bonus or a very strong one breaks the game, as we have all witnessed through the different balance changes (pre-nerf Goths, pre-nerf Mongols, pre-nerf Indians, Persians, free loom aztecs etc). Bonuses in dark age should stay small, by any means.
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Nah, I still thing the trashbows was a solid idea. Increase the cost to 70 wood but give them bracer.
Dark Age bonus was a really good addition and they should have not removed it.
We are getting even worse ideas here. Persians would lose their top tier properties with these nerfs dude.
Only if they want to make them a terrible civ.
Useless tech in castle age.
Extremely useless.
+1
Persians never broke the game tho. I have no idea what you are talking about. They are quite strong, but OP? Nah.
That’s what caused the need for Kamandaran.
No one can survive a game with mass archers. Even trash archers.
That is why they needed an extra option.
Persians should keep on lacking bracer, whether or not crossbow price goes upto 70 wood. Or 65 wood.
Bracer also affects galleons and imo it’s actually somewhat balanced that while their docks work faster, their ships aren’t as good as some others.
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I was mostly thinking about the castle and towers when mentioning Bracers.
Good point.
Crenellations gives teutons best castles already. Their towers are inferior and I was once suggesting that crenellations could also give +1 range to towers so unlike with bracer everything else would be unaffected, however I remembered 10 HC inside bombard tower makes them shoot twice so I guess the only +2 range towers are good enough after all. Or maybe it still could be a thing even then.
But don’t give them bracer in any case. 
Edit: thought I was in teuton thread fml
We could have a version of Bracer that doesn’t affect Galleons and only Towers, Castles and Archers…
I think the balance should have been focused on the extra starting resources. Besides having faster docks (which, as we recently learned, never applied in dark age) one important reason for their dominance on hybrid maps is the +50 wood allowing you to get a dock up increadibly fast. Removing that would have slowed down their dark age fishing eco. With regard to the +50 food I’m not exactly sure. Removing that while keeping +5% faster tcs in dark age could result in troubles keeping vill production up. But that could have been figured out after first removing the wood part.
I just think the reason why so many people complained about kamandaran isnt only the fact it’s a castle age UU and rather cheap but also that Persian eco was so good that oftentimes you’d exclusively playing cavalry in castle age while booming and controlling the map a bit without getting your army killed until unleashing that force in imp. So nerfing their dark age extra resources would have done the job imo.
But it shouldn’t affect archers either. 
And teuton castles already have the longest range of anyone so certainly not them either.
Edit: I’m getting mixed up with the teuton thread now. Forget what I said. My excuse: using phone atm.
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No, the archer getting +1 range isn’t that bad.
Still better than having Arblesters, tho I’d love that too.
Now that I’m back on track as to what subject I’m actually talking about, still don’t think the pers need bracer. Since they are all about strong offensive cavalry and siege power, plus now the weak but incredibly cheap archers to support it. It’s like goths and cumans missing stone walls for a reason. They can deal with it.
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Correct, but point was that they still should have the Dark Age bonus back.
To that I’m not going to say anything. I was merely saying that comparing to chinese so straightforward was a nonsensical argument.