Update 47581

That is by far the best balance of this patch, it is more than justified that that 5% that was given to Dutch made it too powerful.


100% agree, dutch was ridiculous.


They are replacing Maya settlements with the Quechua.Could the new civ be Mayans?

Let’s hope it isn’t.


I think they just want to better represent native cultures, and maya in some south american maps doesn’t make sense. Maya still appear in north american maps. What it really doesn’t make sense is to have the zapotec in andes, as they have done in today’s patch. They were never in the Andes. Also, Maya and Zapotec still appear on Orinoco, when they never appeared; and they removed Tupi to included Caribs, when Tupi at least makes sense as they are amazonean, even if they never were that up north.

Yeah, probably won’t be Maya


Probably…I had the thought that they would go with the way Warchiefs went, for example,replacing the Haudenosaunee settlements with Huron etc…But Mayans doesn’t seem like a obvious choice,I think they’ll add Morocco next.

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big fan of the patch, the exploit prevention in particular makes it easier to jump into an online match.

just wish the Dutch were nerfed in a different way that focuses on their turtling ability, such as bank hp.

nerfing villager gold gathering harms aggressive early game play far more than booming/turtling.

its much harder to get a batch of 5 skirms up at 13-14 vills with an 8 pike ship 2nd and keep production up, while bank focused play doesn’t care as much. banks being so tanky and cm tc fire are a big reason for this.

there are better ways to nerf Dutch to shift their focus towards early game conflict instead of further reinforcing ignoring your opponent because they can’t stop you. its not fun or interactive gameplay.

Man, if Dutch was too strong I’m afraid on what they gonna do when they find how good Portuguese/Chinese ecosystem are. :sweat_smile:

dunas e muito fertil em animais pra japão e muito facil de boomar com casas e um inferno depois pra ele pega todas as casa

Fantastic update. Thank you, Devs! :clinking_glasses:
I can’t imagine how this game could have been treated even better than it is now.

Tantalus Media / Forgotten Empires is doing really incredible job of supporting this game. I wasn’t expecting that to be honest - maybe 6-8 months, at best. And still, it keeps going! :100: :star:
Almost makes me depressed when looking at what other companies are doing with their RTS IPs compared to this one. I hope it will spike in popularity and sales, it’s really a solid product and should be rewarded with high sales.

73 Large Maps entry alone made me feel dizzy. Good thing I drank coffee two hours ago, otherwise I might have passed out. Besides titanic work on the outer shell (like optimization, resulting in inclusion of things like ridiculous zoom) 3DE received so much new content, and it’s expanding all its system - maps, shipments, HC customization, on top of adding new ones like unit skins.

Just crazy work. This game should win the ‘Labour of love’ Steam award :two_hearts: :exclamation:


Heh, so much for the European civs being perfectly balanced in the ESOC patch.

It just amazes me how much content there is in this game.


Portugal’s eco takes a long time to pay off and they have no villager shipments to boost early game, china similarly has a great eco in treaty but in supremacy normally just do an ff and spam shipments.

Dutch can have 5 banks at like 7 minutes, 20% gather bonus for settlers on coin was too much.

The difference is that I can punish Portugal and China, Dutch with skirmishers in commercial age and banks with 4000 HP was medium difficult … Now with 15% they must place an extra villager in gold, to avoid having idle TC, which it translates into slower age advancement, and furthermore, they won’t be able to pull potholes out of 5 skirmishers that easily, in short, Dutch was balanced, as he always should be.

i mean to be fair dutch got buffs later to their lategame economy.

ESOC patch was probably a good starting point but the nature of what it was balanced for obviously makes it not perfect.


The Minas Gerais map is beautiful. I love it.


Can I point out something? :thinking: :thinking:
Bahia was literally the first place where Europeans arrived and were populated with Tupi tribes: they should be on the map rather than the Jesuits. :thinking: :thinking:
Another possibility is having both Tupi and Jesuits like in Minas Gerais.

Bahia is literally above Minas


Yes, you can semi-ff against Dutch every single game of your life and win a good amount of games. So why touch since they were so balanced?
Is not like Dutch is like Ports, that you cannot beat via brain dead semi-ffing every game, so a urgent 7 gentle nerfs where needed to bring the civ into the line of others. icon_chinese

Boss, China has 4 vills shipment on age 1, the trickles from the German consulate, a wonder that produces free army and a factory-like wonder. Their eco is not just good on treaty.

And Pórtis eco pays off faster them Dutch one. By the time Dutch have their 5° bank up, Portuguese are on the Fortress age triple batching villagers and even shipping medicine. (Providing that is not a water play, on which the difference is even more dramatic).

Really? I don’t know, I don’t feel that I have a problem punishing Dutch.

I don’t know if this helps, but generally I harass Dutch with light ranged infantry (Crossbow, Strelets, etc) and them I follow up with a 3° age timing.

I don’t think I have a particularly hard time beating the civ. Although honestly my original comment was just to break Interjection balls a bit.

Their eco’s not bad but it’s quite standard in 1v1until you hit fortress and get the factory wonder.
4v shipment is worse than french 4 cdb, germans 3 SW, each bank for the dutch is 4v of unlimited unraidable coin. Brits hit 50v at 7 minutes, spains got 5v/spanish gold/logistician.
Most people don’t get german consulate trickles in 1v1, it’ll just be their vill card, 700g, 700w ff and spam unit shipments. Consulate will be on brits to get the hp bonus and the redcoats, won’t be enough export for 3 trickles and a change of ally before.

If Jesuits are going to be all over I think that they should be next on the priority list on “natives to improve”.

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