USA is an Auto Win civ

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

I don’t usually post on forums but I just wanted to voice my frustration at how poorly designed and balanced USA is for competitive 1v1 sup. pretty much all of these decisions are backed by the competitive community

I am going to list all the things I think are broken and how to nerf them. after all of this USA will still probably be the best civ.

Cards

age 1

Irish immigrants - scaling cards are just lazy and poorly designed. maybe only let it go up to 6 vills but you get 2 every 4 min.

Chinese Immigrants - this is one of the best cards in the game worth around 800 res (300 res is normal age 1 card). Speaking of tps they should have 2.5k hp like every other civ

age 2

Scottish Immigrants - this is also one of the best cards in the game. Maybe make the max highlanders you can get be 5 and make coin costs 200. I mean it will still be broken as you will have 5 highlanders at about 5:30 min.

Virginia general assembly - this is another crazy good card. capital should take maybe 30sec to build considering it has 5k hp. free fast age tech is also pretty good but I’ll leave it at that.

age 3

Russian Immigrants - ANOTHER one of the best cards in the game. take away the fortified upgrade and not able to be rebuilt. Will still be a crazy good card.

Rolling artillery - ANOTHER one of the best cards in the game. just make it be able to be shipped once doesn’t need to be infinite.

Pulaski’s Legion - ANOTHER one of the best cards in the game. I mean why are they guard and why are there 12 of them. maybe remove guard upgrade will still be a good card. Also and should not be able to train them.

age 4

Kovat’s Legion - ANOTHER one of the best cards in the game. Essentially 9 mams with abit less hp but more attack and speed and cheaper and trainable. should not be able to train and make it 5 Magyars maybe half the cost then.

Age up Cards

Indiana mammoth convention - why does a free age up card exist just remove it or make it cost something .

Kentucky Hunters - ANOTHER one of the best cards in the game. another scaling card that should be capped at 10.

California gold rush - ANOTHER on of the best cards in the game. just remove it why should usa be ottomans.

Bear flag revolt - coupled with California gold rush this card is so insanely broken. idk just remove it.

Units

Musk, skirm, goon should all get -1 range.

Minute men - make them give 10 kill xp like twc warriors now do. also the levy cool down should be double as long.

after all of this USA will still be one of the best civs (doesn’t have to be the best civ every patch)

let me know if I missed anything

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You forgot the german mills, and the age 4 free vills from TC…but at regular speed…also marines counter everything including cannon and cavs and buildings and shadowtech. Also can afford to lose a factory and still rebuild it . The cowboy lame too, you can fast age to use the shadowtech and they are already the most cost effective dragoons. And almost 20k hp forts that spawn units for free…

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I mean yeah, basically has been for a long time. other than the period after gats were nerfed for good reason. the civ is just incredible value every single shipment and its moreso people unfamiliarity with how to optimally send its cards that holds its back

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I think that I need to point out that sending Rolling Artillery gives you 3 Gatlings the 1st time it’s sent with 0 cost (and is an infinite card), while Ports have to pay 300 coin for 3 OGs. Cuz that’s fair -.-…

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Then 2x
To be fair organs are much stronger atm but yeah rolling artillery might as well be a civ bonus its so good

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USA civ bonus description should say they have stronger cards than other civs

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In Age III Organ Guns are stronger and more expensive to make so without that coin cost it would be a 1200 value shipment.

3 Gatling Guns are 1050 value shipment so your first shipment of it is good value but when you get 2 and especially 1 Gatling Gun it becomes substandard in value.

There are reasons why shipments have or don’t have a cost to it.

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If we use this concept, means 3 OG card only cost 900 resources in age3 shipment.
And USA 3 GG cost 1050 shipment and can be sent infinity times.
Then this is still no mistake USA cards are stronger.

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You’re literally overpaying 100 coin for the 3 OGs as Ports since the value of shipments of Age 3 is 1000 resources, you openly proved this in your comment. Also INF Cards are usually lower value shipments (usually 50% value when compared to non INF shipments) due to the fact that they’re, y’know, infinite.

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I don’t know where you’re getting that number from. The only examples I see are ones where you can’t splice them any further. Inf 1 falc, inf 1 caravel, etc. Most unit shipments are more like 80% of the value. 8 longbowmen vs 10, 6 grenadiers vs 7, 7 cav archers vs 8, etc. In a case where the civ doesn’t have a comparable single use shipment, the value can be higher like the Aztecs with inf 600 or 900 gold.

As for Rolling Thunder I don’t think it’s fair to compare it with a standard inf shipment:

  • First Send: Same value as 2 falc, loses to 2 falc
  • Second Send: 700 res, Less value than typical Age 3 shipment, even inf ones
    • Inf 2 leather cannons: 800 res
    • 5 Huss, 4 Huss: 1000 res, 800 res
    • Inf 10 pikemen: 800 res
    • Inf 8 Keshik: 920 res
    • Inf 6 Jaguar Prowler Knights: 720 res
  • Third Send: 350 res, a waste of an age 3 shipment

If you send this thing repeatedly, then you’re averaging 700 res per shipment. I personally don’t think that’s breaking the balance at all in age 3, except that certain players struggle against artillery in general.

As for the rest, we would have to go through each point but I picked a couple easy ones to calculate value on and it’s pretty low:

  • Pulaski’s Legion: 800 res
    • 6 Harquebusier: 980 res
    • 13 Jaeger: 1100 res
    • 7 black riders: 890 res
  • Kovat’s Legion: 700 res + whatever unlocking them is worth
    • 8 Jat Lancer: 1700 res
    • 6 Elmetti: 1400 res

We’re also neglecting some big issues like:

  • there are no standard heavy cavalry shipments. If you want heavy cavalry in age 2 you have to build a stable
  • 2 falc still out-micros and beats 3 gats in a falc war
  • most age-up bonuses kind of suck
  • no 3 vil shipment

In general I don’t think anyone has actually taken a close look at all of these cards. What I suspect instead is that the USA’s ability to gather tons of XP and send lots of shipments is distorting perception on how strong the shipments are.

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I generally agree with this, ignoring a few outliers like age 3 factory and Chinese immigrants age 1. Its like spain but with power spike shipments instead of mediocre melee unit shipments.

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On your calcs you need to remember
-shadowteching for consulate units
-extra stats (think how order huss are.10% more expensive)
Then balance it off wood which gathers slower than say coin. Its a pain to calculate tbh

Rolling art is low res im theory but saves 250w for a foundry to get a batch. Its…on paper not great for 2 shipments but tempo wise amazing for pushes or defensive play. Like we’d all ship 1x falc after 2x falc because in an ff vs age2 stuff artillery is king.

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I generally don’t go too deep into calculating since it opens up a can of worms and allows you to put your thumb on the scale to confirm whatever bias is already there.

I said it at the end of that long comment but if there’s an issue with USA’s shipments it’s not the strength of the individual shipments, it’s the fact that they can get so many of them. Swap rolling thunder with the unit shipments of other civs and I think you would get the same complaint.

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14

Good points that id generally agree on
Every civ needs some haymaker cards to close out but when a civ by design is a succession of haymaker cards backed by incredible stated units its becomes too much imho
Tricky to balance tbf

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3 gatling vs 2 falc on paper has similar cost, but remember why gatling is cheaper than falc, despite having higher dps against groups of units? Answer is it is shorter ranged and more fragile. So if you are playing a euro civ then you are fine against it. Send 2 falc yourself and you can defend against 3 gatling, or make a culv because cukv one shot gatling.

The main problem is if your civ doesn’t hav falc or culv. Gatling range disadvantage disappears because they still outrange everything you have. Weakness to culvs also disappear. The low hp disadvantage is not relevant anymore because you can body block with regulars to prevent melee cavs from sniping it…if you play a non euro civ you can feel the pain. 3 gats wipe out age2 army much faster than 2falcs.

The OP lopsidedfliff usually plays aztecs and stays age 2 and that is probably why he complain about 3 gatling. My main civ like inca and hausa struggled similarly vs 3 gatling. If usa age faster, and send 3 gatling and musk there is no counter. But i wouldn’t do so badly if opponent has 2 falc instead of 3 gatling.

Also btw if you play india then 3 gatling is also much more difficult than 2 falc to deal with, because both gatling and falc require 2 siege ele shots to kill. So gatling hp disadvantage also doesn’t matter. And usa has longer than normal range skirms and goons, which means your siege ele get sniped so easily. For china similar problems. Hand mortars are so difficult to use and immobile. They spread out so much before shooting. So you lose 7 hand mortar before killing the gatling. Most common senario with china is 7 HM one shot one gatling, opponent move back the other two, but my 7 HM is so slow and need packing up, so they can’t move back. So i lose 7 HM and opponent lose only 1 gatling, bad trade for me. Then i don’t have any anti artillery left, i can’t make falc, opponent just send another 2 so he can push me with 4 gatlings

All these comes down to the weakness of non-euro civs for not having proper artillery, gatlings punish this to the extreme, making usa really good vs non-euro civs. This is the fundamental design problem and Eurocentric bias of aoe3. And this is why is stopped playing aoe3. I only play non-euro civs and they all struggle vs mass cannons at some point and cannot trade well in an artillery war. Euro civs keep getting buffed still.

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this is exactly my point and gats are so much better against infantry than falcs its crazy

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18

I do like that card, but because of the industrial age… I save a lot of resources…

Of course, although according to the wikia, the United States has fewer cards and settlers than the rest of the civs, so it is more or less balanced…

Civilization bonuses:

  • Starts with 400 food, 200 wood, 100 XP, and six Settlers.
  • Settlers have a lower train limit (90).
  • Has the General as the hero unit, which can plant Inspiring Flags to augment nearby units and buildings, and build Forts instead of Town Centers.
  • Levy/Conscription can be used repeatedly but with a long global cooldown between each use.
  • Have access to Immigrant and Legion Home City Cards.
  • “Robber Barons” and “Industrial Revolution” are automatically added to the deck in the Industrial Age.
  • Choose Federal States to advance in Age and add new Home City cards to the Deck, starting with fewer cards (21) than other civilizations.
  • National Guard unit: State Militia (Volunteer)

Yes, the United States in early is Spain and in mid (3rd age) it takes off upwards there…

Yes, that’s already a bit of a stretch… I play and that’s it, I don’t start doing calculations about everything…