Viet need change or small bonus

With new paper money it better ever for Viet, but it just make they better from wrong tech. But without it. Viet need some thing more than it too. Some thing like free elite skirmish, or reduce a half cost upgrade from archer line . Or remove free concripsion by + 100% create from unit. They get thing bad before and after appear new 3 DLC they still wors more.
3 thing just advanced for many choice

You can’t seriously suggest giving Viet free elit skirm upgrade,

Viet already save a lot of wood early games (arround 400 when reaching castle age, if you factor in bow saw). Free Elit skirm is 350 res…

I don’t think half archer upgrade cost is that great, because it’s already super cheap. So why not.

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Vietnamese are fine, better than 10 civs in the game.

Just my suggest for my discussion, many change from 2019 but a little from AOE not make it different.

Now it ok but better 10 civil I not sure about you said. Now I don’t thing to civil worse than Viet @@

I know these kind of video are always a subject for debate, but Hera just ranked Vietnamese in A-tier in 1vs1 land map (The Best 1v1 Civilizations (Land maps) | AoE2 - YouTube). So, not a weak civ all thinigs considered.

They definitely need a change, they have couple of design flaws:

  1. Reveal Enemy Position - Do I really have to flare to my allies at the begining of every game? Pretty lame.
  2. Free Conscription - Too little too late.
  3. Economic Upgrades cost no Wood - Arguably the worst eco bonus in the game, why bothering even giving them an eco bonus to begin with if it’s this awful. It doesn’t even allow versatility, forcing you to focus heavily on eco invesment to fully utilize it. Burgundians bonus makes this one look like a joke.
  4. Imperial Skirmisher - And Rattan Archer have the same bad relationship as Genitour and Camel Archer have, two Unique Units of the same civ that are way too similar to each other. Especially if you add the tanky Arbalester they got.
  5. Chatras - Another Elephant fantasy civ, just like Khmer and Burmese, Elephants play a post-Imp role exclusively, however there is an attempt by the developers to increase accessibility of this unit, Burmese get a passive bonus rather than just a tech, and Bengalis have Elephants that might be worth making in Castle Age. But we’re far from having this unit viable. You can’t have UT’s for expensive units, you just make them even more luxurious and far from reach.

Possible solution:

  1. Reveal enemy position should be a team bonus. Duh (?)
  2. Free conscription, Okay.
  3. Economic upgrades cost no wood? Remove this bonus and give them a new one. Something more “real”, playable, like- Destroyed/Deleted Lumberjacks give back their cost.
  4. Imperial Skirmisher is an exclusive unit of Vietnamese now, and therefore much easier to balance and buff. Proffesionalize them, distinguish them away from the Rattan.
  5. Chatras - removed from the game, Vietnamese have +20% to both Archery Range units and Elephants, passively, which means half the bonus, however for free.
    I’d give them a new UT:
    Autarky New Castle Age Unique Tech 350f 150s: Grants 10vills in Castle age or 15vills in Imperial
    This will allow versatility, either Fast Imp or Rattan rush, anything but a generic boom. Neat Powerspike.
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Like 1 and 4, but everything need more accept from many people, hmmm some thing like portuguese do maybe better for team.

i like vietnamese a lot, i think they put italians to shame in terms of archer play for example, having for free a better bonus that what italians pay for with pavise in castle. i just think Paper Money is very weak atm, it should either be much cheaper, or more impactful, since atm it simply needs half an hour just to repay itself and after that is just 1 extra relic

an option could be swap chatras and place it in imperial age as you are not gonna make elephants in castle anyway, and paper money in castle age to profit it sooner, like burgundians gold from farm tech, and make it either cheaper or more impactful

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I know you are Vietnamese so the civ being mid tier annoys you, but they are fine. Stop spamming posts about them

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I know you can’t read this, but I’ll reply anyway.

Agreed, it makes a lot more sense.

Also fine.

That’s a bad idea. It’s a lot less useful to be honest, and it’s a really finicky strange ability. Basically, whenever a vil is about to die, the player will just click it onto a tree and get back the cost. Might as well make it dead vils return their cost, but that’s boring compared to the eco techs thing.

I think this is an option, or add it as a universal upgrade, to be the Skirmisher equivalent of Halberdier and Hussar.

That is absolutely trash. I thought you hated one time bonuses like Flemish Revolution, and then you suggest this? Chatras is actually useable in certain situations, this thing isn’t. And by “s”, do you mean stone or seconds? Either one guarantees this tech will never be seen. It takes way too long, or takes up valuable stone. I would take a TC over 10 or 15 villagers anyday. Basically, you claim the devs ruined the game, and then come up with a list of changes to ruin Vietnamese for most people? Ok then.

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I believe he meant to say “Lumberjack Camp”. But yeah, would still be akward and tbh the vietnamese bonus saves a fair bit of wood up to castle, and it’s not that bad.

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Come on. This thread has to be a joke. You just can’t ask to buff viets for no reason.

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The proplem of VIets was always “performance on the ladder” vs “pro performance”.
The civ has just so many bonusses which pros can use so much more efficient than we noobs.
HAving the wood discount on eco techs is a strong bonus IF you can adjust your buildorder to it. Which most people on the ladder can’t.
Knowing the opponent starting position is nice, but it can’t compensate for actually scouting what he is doing.
The exra HP on archers is only of importance in fights vs mangos (which noobs should avoid anyways) and if both archer players have very similar micro skills. Which is also rare to have on a ladder matchup.

Lately - which I also don’t fully understand - it looked like it dropped off in the pros recognition as a top civ also. Idk if this has anything to do with the attack move micro.

I’d like to see some changes to Viets tbh cause Imo it’s an interesting civ, but also I myself never got “warm” with it.

The discussion, maybe annoying but it need although some other civil need bonus and nerf together but with the weak civil special compare with other archer civil. Just want it more balance

They dont need other civ bonus. At best give them an spear bonus, but thats it, Viets are better vs archer civs but not much better and against archer civs they are good.

As I said, I know you are a Vietnamese and that the civ isnt popular, but the civ is good. Not that strong but still viable

Reason I get for you on my post: it not ok and use in a game, every unit of they look it quite ok but many thing make it wrong, rattan many people say it good but let use it ok need time the same with elephant war. And like a man talk reveal enemy should be can see for ally. Update economy no cost good but it still not easy for you spend much economy for you do other just abit better. So why I ask for small bonus economy more

I compare the thing archer can do, and economy the civil archer need for damage to enemy and appearance Viet do not good with it. Special with UU, thing I always talk

Its not the first time he proposes changes for vietnamese. When chattras got buffed he said that they got buffed in the wrong place, just as right now with the paper money rework.

To summarize his previous threads: he mostly want rattan archer delay buffed and both UTs changed for other thing because he cant stand rattan frame delay and the nicheness of the UTs.

He also wants a better eco bonus for them

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The UU is really good. The archer bonus is mediocre for archer themselves but since it includes skirms its pretty decent, and the eco isnt crazy but its still decent. Better than what many other civs get.

I get that you dont like how they are awkward to use and unpopular, but they arent in urgent need of any change

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