How much better would Vietnamese be if they got this instead of current? Would they get 50% win rate? It would be interesting to see how it plays out. Ideally every civ gets 50% overall win rate.
On paper it sounds nice but then you have stuff like wheelbarrow, which’d only cost 50 wood. Vietnamese are fine now, maybe their UTs need some improvement.
A better buff to this bonus would be 50% off on eco upgrades
4 Likes
Ideally every civ has an overall 50% chance of winning against a random civ, and that is far from what winrates mean.
1 Like
I think their economy bonus is awesome currently, and they need improvement in other areas, assuming they do.
I haven’t try the no wood cost on eco upgrade, but as far I can tell on paper, for an archer civ the current bonus sounds really good. Using only food to build a strong economy through eco upgrades while pumping the wood into military looks like a good balance.
5 Likes
True. Even if you dont build an army because you are in a closed map, the bonus feelings are similar to the vikings eco bonus… Your economy suddenly grow up without effort upon ageing up
1 Like
That is a small change and wouldn’t affect anything.
As I see for other Civ. The key is is faster military production like Goth, Huns, Aztec or Franks
Why are so many people complaining about vietnamese? Yes, in imp they have really bad matchups against some civs but, conversely, they have really good matchups against others. If anything would be changed about them I don’t see the need to touch their eco bonus. Feels like a lot of people here underestimate its strenghts. Great for booming: super easy to get all eco upgrades, 2 tcs and monastry with average fc timing on arena (also you can get handcart pretty early). Great on open maps because it facilitates every kind of fast feudal opening where you want to get eco upgrades early on.
And btw, eco upgrades cost no food would be hiliariously op. For that to be balanced it probably should amount to 50% off food for eco upgrades. But then why change vietnamese bonus from wood to food?
3 Likes
My guess is that in term of total wood saved, it is low compared to other ressource saving bonuses. Also it is a bonus that only apply in Feudal Age and after, where other bonuses offer benefits faster. Take the Japanese wood bonus as an exemple.
Depending on how much of the later upgrades you get you save 1000-1300 in total which is decent imo.
Japanese save more in dark age, that’s true. But the most part of what Vietnamese save in feudal comes straight upon reaching feudal (depends a bit on the exact build) so it doesn’t make that much of a difference. Afterwards the Japanese bonus doesn’t really have an all too significant effect while Vietnamese save a lot wood in castle age again. So all things considered it’s much better than the Japanese one.
I would disagree. Certain civs should have an advantage on their strong maps and less on others.
Based on Arabia they should have nearly the same win rate
But it is not inly vout the wood discount. By saving resources they can research those upgraders faster, so they receive the benefits of those upgrades for more time.
Also, since they start knowing the enemy position in dark age, they can lure deer with the scout if needed instead of scouting the area. So they can save even more wood since the dark age
Moreover, they can steal enemy boar more asily (but i advise you to not try this…)
Notice how I emphasise overall (I agree with what you say)
I feel their economy bonus is strong enough. But it needs to gather deer to get the most out of it to avoid messing up a build order by transitioning from faster hunting to slower farming too early. An extra ~300 food from 3 deer is enough to buy Double-Bit Axe, Horse Collar, and Gold Mining and have 200 bonus wood for whatever build you’re using. 4 deer is enough food to be ~50 food short of also buying Wheelbarrow and having another bonus 50 wood. Either way, Vietnamese have the potential for a better Feudal Age economy than even the Vikings if the Vietnamese player maximizes their Dark Age. On top of that, the Vietnamese Town Center scouting bonus also relieves some of the timing pressure for scouting the enemy base if the Vietnamese player wants to use their Scout to push all of their deer.
2 Likes
Not even close. The free wheel barrow isn’t only 150 food and 50 wood. It’s also TC Idle time. It’s also immediate.
So not only would the viking have more vils, but the very second they reach feudal their eco is buffed. They don’t HAVE to scout the enemy either they could push deer as well.
Meaning viet only save 200 wood. What is gathered faster wood or food? Food is generally worth more ie can be used in the most places needed for the super important aging
2 Likes
frankly no wood for the upgrades synchronizes better with the Vietnamese identity anyway.
they use wood and gold for the majority of their army (archers), thus using only food for upgrades, and for booming allows them better allocation of resources.
frankly though if you want to buff ecos of civs, their are civs out there with much worse ecos then Vietnamese who could use love, like tatars.
Tatar bonus is underrated. It’s 400 free food
1 Like
true, but compare that to some bonuses like Indians cheaper villagers, or Mayans longer lasting everything. and its only 400 free food on paper. you’re going to lose some of that to decay.
11
more like 2-3 free farms, or 120 wood. You still have to take the food from the sheep.