1: rattan archer frame delay 23. It too high for a foot archer, while crossbow line is 20 and plume archer get 15./ with crossbow line 6 attack but easy creation cheaper wood but compare with unique unit, they sone time better damage for archer. Plume archer damage 5( +2 infantry) not too different with rattan but higher hp run faster, delay frame 15, cheap, upgrade cheap with wood and food so gold can spend for other purpose. Come back with Viet damage 7 but frame delay 23 so they still lose cross bow, not count more plume, 4 and 6 pierce armor( still get against damage from skirmish :))] but bad attack + expensive thing it is bad and very hard unique special in castle age, or can use it when you get imperial age so need reduce frame shoot for rattan.
2: no need w for economy upgrade is ok, but not enough after 3 year Viet get a small bonus and nearly just work from castle age. How Viet work when begin Viet nearly can’t use this bonus. Early game need up feu soon and creation soldier for deff can not upgrade soon. So this bonus not make any thing different with before get bonus. I request for Viet get 1 little bonus early game more.
Yes, the delay on Rattan Archers is painful, they feel closer to Cavalry Archers. I think it’s more severe than the frame delay numbers imply (23 vs 15 for crossbow or 20 for arbalester). If you look at “Attack Delay” they have double the standard foot archer:
- Rattan: 0.69s
- Crossbow: 0.35s
- Arbalester: 0.34s
- Cav Archer: 0.9s
- Plumed Archer: 0.5s
- Genoese Crossbow: 0.5s
- Longbow: 0.5s
I’m not clear on why Attack delay is giving such different results from frame delay. Shouldn’t they be directly related by frames per second?
No, Rattans are just fine, insane Archer UU that tear apart most archers and has really good attack tho, Their role is fine and well designed, if you think is the frame delay, in comparison to plumed archer, well the plumed archer is OP in comparison, same like Chu Ko Nu, making basically Rattans and Genoese look like bad units, because both have so much power for their cost. Plumes and Chu Ko Nus need a nerf.
And if you think Vietnamese is weak, they were seen by a lot in KOTD 4 with relatively good success, no they don’t need more buffs, especially after Chatras change, instead nerf the civs that are archer civs but are just soo strong and frustrating to play against, also being banned in tournaments (Mayans) or have such long reign in TGs that became too boring (Britons).
Thank you so much but yes I’m forget the important point you remain to, rattan just is normal damage not high damage + delay shot + frame make they same with cross bow line. Need change for they because Viet let this make they become tank archer for enemy slay.
Remember Viet is archer civil, charas bonus need delete it dont need this bonus, 100hp but not economy = 0. Cuman get - 100w for stable, archery range ?? It not huge bonus :)) the wish many civil want to, haven’t charas or bonus no w for economy tech better. Instead for other bonus :))
Same rattan can not use elephant war if you not upgrade 4 age + huge resouses. 20%hp not for rattan( foot archer 
) different geno Italian( +5-7 damage to cavalry ) rattan not against to archer, or range unit damage. 4-6 pa but damage not have = 0. Same with delay shoot why need the unit hp armor = foot archer, but damage = cavalry archer speed slower.
I really don’t know what are trying to say…
I mean charas need nerf back to 50hp or if worse back to 30 :)) dont need it. But make they small bonus economy early game,
About rattan delay shoot and frame is unbalance in foot archer front and they still not usefull like u say @@
You already created another thread to ask the same thing, don’t you ???
YOU don’t need chatras does not mean OTHERS don’t too …
If you want to play a one-dimensional archer civs, play ethiopians or britons.
Vietnamese are more versatile, and elephants are part of it.
Rattan archers are good : +1 attack, move slightly faster, high pierce armor.
But rattan is not ALWAYS the way to go. Sometimes you do something else …
Vietnamese are fine at the moment. Please don’t ask for changes in something that’s not broken.
I think there is the attack animation that determines the delay. But I am not an expert at this topic.
Want to find balanced civil :), delete the wrong bonus instead by thing right