My ideas to fix this:
- Make deers only move when they are beeing attacked
- Nerf the amount of food deers provide
- Make scouting more valuable
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The question is, how important are Viper’s points for the average player?
Imo deer pushing is already as fine as it is because it’s an option if you have the extra APM + multitasking capabilities to spend.
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Or a very small adjustment. Either one of these -
- Boar hunters work 5% faster.
- Deer hunters work 5% slower.
Now that will create even greater chaos as everyone will steal enemy’s boar. But my theory is everyone will eventually be better at laming as well as preventing laming. And after almost 1 year, everything will be normal again.
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An option would be a free choice. If you cant make a choice because it requires something you dont have - in this case a higher APM - you cant make the choice, so its in fact not an option.
I dont know either how important it is for an average player to know that if he has low APM, it results in a significant economic disadvantage, to me it sounds quiet frustrating.
Anyways, I think that most of Vipers average viewers do care about his opinion, how much he enjoys the game, and even about how he would change it. But thats just my personal assumption.
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Here another idea:
increase the minimum duration between two deer sprints (as well as the duration to deer going back to its starting location) by a few seconds (like 3 seconds), so that the deer pushing takes twice as long.
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Mybe by making drushes stronger?
Ofc there needs to be a “safe play option” like preemptively miniature walling or something as at lower levels you can’t expect players to get and interpret the required information consistantly.
But in general this would make deer pushing more risky as you might be drushed unprepared and take more damage than currently.
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I don’t see this situation as broken, in need to be fixed.
The only related intervention that I can see, is to make the follow order useful. I mean, to make real a consistently functional deer push in a straight line, by ordering your scout to follow the 
. This will reduce the APM load of that demanding process (which becomes overwhelmingly demanding if you postpone it until Feudal Age, even for the top-
of the best players).
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Viper is right. I prefer nomad style maps without a scout because deer pushing is too annoying. I love it If i get a mega random map and we start without scouts and lots of deer. all the players have to mill it <3
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I like milling deer on Land Nomad
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Just a random idea inspired by AoE4… Don’t take it serious.
The scout cavalry and eagle scout can “hunt” a deer by killing it. The scout can kill deer without rotting them and take up the deer body which was killed by scout units.
After killing a living deer, the scout will automatically carry the deer body, and it can bring the deer away and put it down at anyplace, which allows you bring the deer back to the town. When the scout is carrying a deer body that contains 140 food, it will only move at half of speed and be not able to attack. The less food the deer body contains, the faster speed the scout can move at when carry. The deer body will not keep getting rotten until putted down but cannot be carried again by the scout who had carried it once putted down.
You can hunt deer easily with your scout but in exchange it cannot scout the map and will be very weak on the way home. If the enemy scout comes to steal your deer, your can attack it and force it give up the body, then you may carry it back.
The hunting ability may be lost after the Forging is researched. The unit is going to become a soldier rather than a hunter.
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Love this idea this will make everyone get deer and the advantage will be less compared to someone who cant and someone who can.
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To be honest, the only effect you would get is that any decent player (1500+ ELO) would push 2 deer instead of 3/4 before going exploring
Why do you want to remove a skill expression?
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Why do you want to remove a skill expression?
Its the best balance change, this way everybody gets deer or else spawn deer near town centers like many maps. This will reduce the huge benefit that people get from deer pushing is too much if you get a boar lamed. I am okay to keep the balance if we can nerf laming.
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I still think they should just replace your starting deer with shore fish. Deer should be located much further away and require quite a bit of…you guessed it, scouting to find.
Shore fish take a lot more thought to use, as you need to mill them, so it might not always be the ideal choice right away. In exchange there should probably be like 3 of them, though.
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Since we have Runestone, a map very similar to Arabia, there are opportunities to experiment on the map generation.
I had a thought on how to address shore fish in standard map without making some obvious civ bias. I will make some edited maps before finally proposing something.
I don’t see the problem in deer pushing. Hunting boars is also common so where is the problem in that?
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Deer pushing requires significantly more APM than boar luring.
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I know. That wasn’t my point.
I just still don’t get the problem tho. Why does it have to be nerfed? Whats the problem of taking advantage of the ressources close to you? Should we nerf the food boars provide as well?
Is this a typical “back in the day the game was played differently and i don’t like the change” thing? Because i see 0 problems in people taking deers.
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I honestly think pushing deer is fine but I hate the RNG that sometimes I have to go two full orbits to find my deer while sometimes I am done pushing deer before I get the second boar
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