Can confirm, which is why I don’t do it most of the time.
I REALLY think that deer should spawn close to the TC, so players get a lot of food before berries without having to work extra hard for it. This would be really friendly for newer players.
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I think the problem is once you’re at a certain level, pushing becomes mandatory, at least that’s how I understand OP’s concern.
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yeah like buildorders, micro and many other things.
Deer pushing doesn’t turn arabia into arena and it’s not like you have such a huge advantage with a few civs, that they are only played because of it…i mean mongols have hunting bonus but seems like people still play other civs. So as long as it’s balanced it’s fine.
i think pros are sometimes a bit too sentimental about these things and i can’t even blame them. They played this games for so many years and ofc they don’t like big changes.
I mean a few even resisted the auto reseed function from the mill at first, which makes the game 100x times more enjoyable.
The problems arise when the game becomes so rigid you may as well not play it.
Right now, there’s zero reason to ever do anything but push deer. That being the case, why bother even forcing us to do it? It’s pointless busywork. The only potentially dynamic aspect is if the connection lags and your deer runs back, screwing you over. They might as well just start us out after the deer are gone and let us play from there.
The core of it is, chasing deer is boring and the same every time. Scouting your enemy is dynamic and different every time.
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Well isn’t pretty much everything in dark age pretty lame and repetitve, unless you drush maybe? Luring boars or building mill/lumbercamps isn’t exciting either.
Which is why i understand why some people want starts(like empire wars) where you skip these things
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Buff drush, m@a rush and tower rush to make scouting more important
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My problem with deer pushing is mainly when watching tournaments, where everyone push deer rather than scouting, and I would rather have full deers pushing being a risky move rather than the standard.
If the majority of pros & fans like more full deer pushing as the standard, I woud accept it being the norm.
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“Economy is more important than Scouting, Scouting isn’t that valuable”. Reason for this is the map layout with 3 gigantic forests at 10-12 tile distance from each player’s tc, gold and berries spawning just outside the tc range. That makes it relatively much easier to wall and stay safe. Even if there’s a hole or the wall is broken, vills just have to walk a few steps and they’re safe from early feudal units. Unless you move resources further away from town center, economy will always be prioritized over scouting because unexpected aggressive gameplays will be less rewarding and suboptimal.
Removing deer or eliminating deer push is only going to delay the existing feudal approaches by a minute and the slower 2020/21 builds will be back. Players will obviously send their scouts to find opponent sooner because it can’t be used for deer pushing anymore but its not like that’s going to be more valuable than now in any way. Meta would stay the same.
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Make Deer act like Aoe1 Gazelles where they run farther faster but even more predictable with sudden changes in direction almost like they are actually trying to evade you.
That would just be frustrating. The problem isn’t that they’re pushable, it’s that the current situation essentially obligates you to push them.
If you don’t want them to be pushable, just change them to shore fish.
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Nice mechanic, I’ve not played AoE4 that much but it looks very nice.
better thing to do is simply make deer not go too far
I agree. Viper’s argument only applies to overtrained players who can optimize almost every single movement. The average player makes so many small optimization mistakes in a game that whether or not they push deer doesn’t have any serious consequences.
this won’t be a popular take i assume but ensemble already fixed the deer pushing being hell with how hunting works in aoe3, basically when you hunt the entire herd moves as a group, no pushing deer 1 by 1 and burning 200 APM on that, which i can safely assume most players don’t reach 200 APM total so its not like its smt i’d consider approachable (i’m sub 200 APM myself, i do find deer pushing overly demanding of my attention and too frustrating to deal with, at most i push like 1 maybe 2 if i have little else to do (usually i don’t) and just mill the rest, if possible i just don’t bother with pushing alltogether)
translation: no need to remove deer pushing, but it could definitely use a rewamp of how it works mechanically, atm its a mechanic i avoid like a plague out of frustration
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He is just ignoring the elephant in the room.
The problem is the repetitive animal luring chore itself, which could be easily solved by making deer unpushable.
or moving the entire herd together
sounds like a cleaner fix
The issue with pushing deer is that gives you more resources, and in many cases better, or at least equal scouting.
How does pushing deer gives you better scouting than an opponent who doesn’t? If you push deer and your opponent does not you are most likely the first one to reach Feudal Age. A Feudal Age Scout is faster and stronger than a Dark Age Scout, so the other player has to keep their Scout near their own base, otherwise it might get snipped. So either they delay scouting until Feudal Age, which means the advantage of having more time for their Scout to scout is meaningless, or they do scout, and potentially lose it and have much worse scouting from thereon.
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Eliminate deer push
Eliminate deer push
Eliminate deer push
Eliminate deer push
Eliminate deer push
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For me it’s still that scouting gives not enough value even with the latest buffs to militia line rushes.
You get enough ressources close to your TCs and the buildorders are so obtimized that you can’t really effectively adjust anyways when you scout the opponent opener. Or better said: it’s usually better to stick with your initial build and then adjust later.
I don’t like the chickens, imo they don’t add anything to the game really. Ofc chickens lead you to scouting the opponent earlier, but it’s not a decision you take.
Funnily it’s different with builds like the phosphoru where scouting the opponents openers is crucial for the success. (And it would also be helpful to scout a phosphoru early)