VOTE! --> Top 3 Paladin civs

[SauravT]

One thing going for Frank Paladins is an early permanent advantage (LoS is pretty significant) and another permanent advantage (+12 HP on Paladins).

The extra HP helps with +4 Arbalester shots, +3 Elite Longbowmen/Rattan Archer shots, +1 Halberdier shot (massive), +1 shot from Heavy Camels without Blast Furnace (had they 193 HP, it was +1 Heavy Camel shot without exception).

For Lithuanians, it is a permanent but situational advantage with relics. Since you mostly fight with almost the same rated players in 1vs1 and in team games there are more than 5 relics, you can reliably bank atleast 1 relic. There isn’t much accomplished by extra relics on Paladins (it is much more significant for Leicai), but with 3 relics, Paladins an 2 shot normal villagers. With 2 relics, it becomes easier to take down siege units (Onagers and Scorpions).

For Teutons, it isn’t a clear advantage because of lacking Husbandry. The extra armor helps both against Halberdiers and Camels, and the conversion resistance also helps against Monks. So basically Teuton Paladins are resistant to their counters but slightly weaker in their strength (the strength of cavalry is speed). The melee armor is insignificant against most units (villagers, trade carts, monks, siege units) and all buildings.

Magyar and Spanish have temporary advantages.

Burgundians too have a temporary advantage. But by investing 100 seconds in Castle Age, you have basically Lithuanian Knights with 2 relics. That can simply mean ignoring Forging (Forging helps kill villagers 1 shot earlier) and prioritising Chain Barding. This is a permanent advantage. In early Imperial, they are the only Civilization which goes for Paladin 100% of the times. In early imperial, they have a huge power spike. Compared to their Castle Age Cavaliers vs other civ Knights, they gain +20 HP and +1p armor which can swing many melee fights and own ranged fights.

Huns are a classic Knight Civilization with a permanent advantage right from the start. This also helps in research of Cavalier and Paladin.

For Celts and Byzantines, it is not worth to research the upgrades in most situations. However, they are a solid unit in Post Imperial starts. Don’t let anyone stop you though, it can definitely catch the opponent off guard.

[Talk2God]

One often overlooked aspect is that Spanish save 695 gold on all blacksmith upgrades for paladin. That almost completely offsets the paladin gold upgrade cost.

That’s why I ranked them as 3rd.

[casusincorrabil]

I think I now would change my vote actually. I don’t think lith are one of the 3 best paladin civs anymore. Depending on 1v1 or TG I would put burgundians respectively spanish (bec of the team bonus) above them.

[ReanuKeeves00]

Like… how flexible are these rules? Do you actually have to make Paladins to make your vote count? With Lith you can still kill a ton of civs in feudal age consistently… so if you stretch it to civs with Paladins, Lith is still good.

[GusTank04]

Hey! I chose all 3 of the top ones! My life has been successful…I may die in peace

[TungstenBoar]

Eh Liths are still top 3 for me

[FurtherLime7936]

I will swap the list for Franks, Teutons and Magyars, followed closely by Burgundians, with Lithuanians being barely in tie with Spanish but at least above Cumans.

[TungstenBoar]

Why would you rather have Spain over Cumans when Cumans have a better eco and better than generic paladins as well as cheaper stables?

[FurtherLime7936]

Maybe because they have Blacksmith upgrades that don’t cost gold, and a super good team bonus, while Cumans haven’t that good things, the second TC in feudal is expesnive and takes long to be built.

[TungstenBoar]

The second TC is a massive economy advantage (particularily as pocket), the savings of gold are minor and the extra trade is super good but it arrives very late.

Cumans have had pretty good performance on the last team game tournaments with Ornlu putting them pretty high while Spain has been very disapointing in the last tournaments.

[Gaturro7777]

If I have to choose the best civs that can get paladines

Franks
Burgundians
Lithuanians

If I have to choose just the Best paladines based only on their stats

Franks
Lithuanians
Teutons/cumans

[Lepigozzus]

Imho Franks, Burgundians, Cumans.
Fastest to reach a critical mass of them.
Franks have Chivalry and stronger paladins, Burgundians can upgrade to cavaliers while passing to the imperial age and upgrade to Paladins for half the price, making more of them, also they have strong economy.
Cumans thanks to discounted stables can simply make more stables for less wood, Huns tied with them because of the wood “bonus”, expecially in high population games. Cumans also have good economy if managed to feudal boom.
Fast Paladins (creation speed, not unit speed) imho > stronger Paladins.

If somehow the map doesn’t allow Cuman feudal boom then I’d go for Persians in their place, they have perfect pairing with trashbows and good economy with faster and bulkier TC.

Teutons are slow, I don’t really like them, and Lithuanians are too dependant on relics now. But I must admit I’ve played Lithuanians like 3 times in over 500 games so my opinion is a bit worthless on the matter

[MegasDukas]

@casusincorrabil

I don’t think lith are one of the 3 best paladin civs anymore.

Well…considering that I did make this poll before Lithuanians got nerfed in having Blast Furnace removed it is no wonder that you would change your vote.

@anon45959656

Like… how flexible are these rules? Do you actually have to make Paladins to make your vote count? With Lith you can still kill a ton of civs in feudal age consistently… so if you stretch it to civs with Paladins, Lith is still good.

My poll is simply to decide who has the Paladins, assuming that if you play the civ that you train Paladins. This poll is not meant to extend into other wide-reaching and general discussions of “you can do this as this civ” or “you can do that as this civ”.

@TungstenBoar

Why would you rather have Spain over Cumans when Cumans have a better eco and better than generic paladins as well as cheaper stables?

Only speaking for myself here: Cuman Paladins are still very generic except that their Paladins move faster (meaning they can maneuver faster, and go to the next target faster). The cheaper Stables are only really good in early to mid-game. In late game, your economy should be fully up and running, and you will be swimming in Wood resources. So cheaper Stables is not much of a difference as when you finally get Paladins working, you and everyone else will already have post-Imp economies.

@Lepigozzus

and Lithuanians are too dependant on relics now. But I must admit I’ve played Lithuanians like 3 times in over 500 games so my opinion is a bit worthless on the matter

Well, considering that now Lithuanians only need 2 Relics to “break even” with other rival generic Paladins in terms of Atk, I would not say that they are too dependent on Relics, since gathering 2 relics is not incredibly hard. Lithuanians also can get a monk or two out earlier than other civs due to their Monastery’s working +20% faster.

If you manage to get 3 or 4 relics garrisoned, then Lithuanian Paladins are made better than Generic ones.

[ReanuKeeves00]

@Antelope962027

My poll is simply to decide who has the Paladins, assuming that if you play the civ that you train Paladins. This poll is not meant to extend into other wide-reaching and general discussions of “you can do this as this civ” or “you can do that as this civ”.

hm… in that case the #2 and #3 spot don’t matter for TG… because Franks are just that much better if one desires strictly the best Paladins.

For 1v1, I’d go for Burgundians because it’s just that much easier to actually research Paladin.

[TungstenBoar]

@Antelope962027

Only speaking for myself here: Cuman Paladins are still very generic except that their Paladins move faster (meaning they can maneuver faster, and go to the next target faster). The cheaper Stables are only really good in early to mid-game. In late game, your economy should be fully up and running, and you will be swimming in Wood resources. So cheaper Stables is not much of a difference as when you finally get Paladins working, you and everyone else will already have post-Imp economies.

Yes but the early game of the Cumans isnt even comparable

[FurtherLime7936]

@Antelope962027

Well, considering that now Lithuanians only need 2 Relics to “break even” with other rival generic Paladins in terms of Atk, I would not say that they are too dependent on Relics, since gathering 2 relics is not incredibly hard.

No, depending on the opponent, can realize that Lithuanians without relics suck so can try to even match up map control (Something that Burmese, Mongols can do easily) and get relics first.

[ReanuKeeves00]

investing too hard into getting the relics can backfire just as well. Opponent simply outbooms you and you’re just dead

[Lepigozzus]

Imho 3 relics to just get an edge over regular Paladins is being heavily dependant on them.
Monastery is 175 wood + 100 gold for the monk, this might slow your castle age boom.
Before the nerf getting 1 relic was just enough to get ahead in a Paladin vs Paladin fight, and getting a single relic was really easy, even without building a monastery right away in castle age.

[ElizaKolmakov]

Ironic.

[SMUM15236]

Or Iconic.

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