All church cards need a rework to make them viable like the Ottoman one.
Especially for the merc techs, they should either unlock the unit, or give a permanent buff like the Swedish Jaeger tech or the African merc cards.
Also remove the penalty for the first free tech and make it automatically enabled with the church card. Such penalties may be balanced within the original 8 Europeans but not anymore, as new civs can get more broken buffs more easily without the penalty.
As for Wallenstein’s contract, Highlanders and Harquebusiers already exist in other civs’ merc techs so that’s kind of overlapping.
I think it should remain to be a mercenary buff tech, maybe reduce the cost of mercs trained at the tavern, etc., and/or make all subsequent merc cards unlock the merc like the Swedish ones (as they are all called “contracts”).
I think maybe germany should get access to more mercenary cards, or maybe keep the current effect but also let germans build some mercenaries in regular buildings. I’d also like them to work on infinite army cards, but maybe give them a malus, like taking longer to arrive (they take their time as there is tho)
I sometimes use the tech. If you send mercenary loyalty, the cost of the tech is reduced to 1500 and becomes much more viable. It needs an “extra” shipment, but if you were gonna go heavy on mercs you should use that card anyway.
Then what I do is sell a little more resources and research mercantilism, gain 2 shipments, spam an army at no cost and hoard gold to build artillery and skirms/goons.
I send the jaeggers first, then the black riders, then the arquabusiers to wipe the skirms and artillery response, then the landsknetchs to siege. While those 0 cost shipments are arriving, I build skirms, war wagons and artillery.
Granted, you need and specific build order to reach 3rd age with enough gold to do all this, but germany can hold its own with pikes, crossbows and uhlans in age 2 (i sometimes use the logistic age up to get extra uhlans and save more gold, and the age 2 arsenal upgrades for archers and hand infantry helps wity the 2nd age push)
The problem is that there is a card called Mercenary Loyalty that reduces its price, i think that free infinite mercenaries is very OP. I would suggest that the “Wallenstein’s Contracts” upgrade, in addition to its current benefits, reduces the amount of population occupied by mersenaries by -1 and increases the number of mersenaries you receive with each shipment of mersenaries infinites +1 of each type. In addition, the mersenarios in the tavern train faster. Also that they return the previous price that was 4000.
First off, letting Germans get mercs from regular buildings would be just giving a Swedish perk to the Germans. That doesnt seem like a viable option.
Agreed, though some of them are allready quite viable.
That’ll quickly change the church cards to auto includes. Some of these bonusses are very strong without a downside or at least a high cost.
Overlap allready exsists, I don’t see why this would be a problem.
Look at how many hoops you need to jump through to make it semi viable. If you can send 2 “do nothing” cards AND save up that amount of gold AND wait for those slower merc shipments to come in, you’re probably severly outclassing your opponent already. Gimmick techs can be a lot of fun that’s for sure, but Wallenstein’s simply isnt a good tech.
No problem in removing the discount from that card if theyre reworking though. -1 Population is insanely good however, they’re unlikely to ever do that. Mercs have higher stats than regular units but are balanced because of their higher pop cost. Germans allready receive more mercs per shipment and tavern mercs already train faster with regular train time improvement cards. IF they would ever do the -1 population for mercs the cost would have to be much higher than 4000 gold.
Could also re-enable the mercenaries that you have been sent so far without the need to advance to the imperial age. And in the imperial age reduce the mersenario population by -1. (Plus current benefits)
Maybe give them a cost and/or reduce the effects then. Because some of the penalties are very critical and make things unusable (e.g. -25% speed for infantry).
That’s the biggest problem. It is painfully slow. To simply make use of this card (not even talking about a viable strats here) you need 2 shipments that do almost nothing else + 1500 gold, and then you need even more shipments to make it actually pay off. Not to mention German shipments are already slower.
Maybe reduce part of their cost and make the merc cards arrive much faster? The numbers can be tweaked.
That’s why I’m always thinking the “cards that packed multiple effects” in DLC civs should be the model of updating church cards and techs.
The problem is -1 population is just really really good. If a game gets to the point where you’ll send those army cards, in general gold isnt an issue anymore. That 40+ pop that is hold up however does put a damper on things. How long do those armies take to arrive? It’s a long time that’s for sure. Imagine that pop being halved, an not only there but for all mercs. You get far superior troops for half the population. It’s much better than sending free armies.
Agreed. Speed is something you don’t want to reduce in general, movement is kinda important in RTS
That’s literally what the Swedes already do. Germans as the OG merc civ just can’t compete with them #feelsbadman
This can also become part of the effects of Wallenstein’s Contract. There are techs or cards that “steals” somebody else’s bonus and as long as it hids behind a cost and has smaller effects (like the US immigrants etc.), it is still a bonus of that civ.
That bonus stealing is just a USA mechanic really. Its kind off a build your own EU civ. None of the EU factions “steal” another’s mechanics. Id be opposed to the Germans just getting a Swedish core mechanic. Even if it was obtained by a card.
I agree with the spirit of the proposal. I think @OperaticShip743 made some really good points.
I personally would consider keeping it to “all mercenary shipments arrive quicker” and extending the buff to infinite shipments with discount (making them free would indeed be pretty OP). It could synchronize with Mercenary Loyalty if you are willing to give up/invest in those card slots.
I guess that tech is supposed to be used on a treaty game.
But I guess it takes a lot of card slots too. How a German treaty deck would look like?
I imagine you have to triple card the plantations (3) since all your units costs so much coin. Quintuple card the cavalry (8), triple or quadruple (The card that gives HP but takes away speed is good? I guess the tankiness would be very appreciated in treaty) card the Doppelsoldners + the church tech to upgrade them further (12-13), skirmishers card (13-14). Riding + Fencing school (15-16) and the 2 factories (17-18), the mercenary upgrade card (18-19) and them you can put the 6 mercenaries cards + eco theory or 5 mercenaries + eco theory.
Yeah, I’m clearly not a treaty player, I was just pitching a idea.
In my mind I would shipped all those mercenaries shipment before aging up to the imperial age with the mercenary contractor and resetting, having a fully upgraded mercenary army with me when the treaty time ends and then going slowly replenishing.
I will try out and see if I can make something like this works.