War Wagons

Wood cost 92 → 100
Bonus against standard building +5 → +0
Accuracy 100% → 80%
Pierce armor reworked so that it doesn’t take 1 damage from TCs in the castle age
Elite WW range 5 → 4

Yes, this nerf is necessary to ensure the integrity of TGs.
No, I don’t care that WW will be useless.
Yes, Koreans aren’t a good civ outside of WW and Imperial.
No, I don’t care that Koreans will be useless.

Literally even Camel Archers and Genoese lose against them pop and cost wise, the supposed counter unit.

1 Like

More nerfs to War Wagons/Koreans? Combined with defense nerfs, no wonder a friend with thousands of hours of AoE fun (as Koreans) over the years vs. AI bailed from DE and plays AoE2:HD instead. I’ll try to suggest using handicap feature to lure back, but the game really is morphing into something not as desirable as HD in terms of general gameplay for casual players who want to turtle and/or eventually dominate with civs they play 99.9% of the time.

Wish there was a “Classic stats” mode that players could enable to bring back classic unit/bldg/wall/tower stats back to HD or earlier stats


In team games you get huskarl which melts them if you have a Goth ally. So, what’s the big issue?

You don’t care that will be usless? That’s cruel.


Not fond of pushing Koreans to another civ running xbow. Besides, I can see players can counter war wagons effectively with monks. They arent siege and monks can convert them without redemption.


Noooooooooooooooooooo. Please don’t massacre my boy! ;_;


good news for you then… they already dont

bundling so many nerfs together is just an emotional over reaction and isnt going to work. why wouldnt they do incremental nerfs instead? even just removing the bonus damage (which is huge)

this isnt the way to get people to support your ideas, if anything its the opposite

exactly, there must be other ways of doing it, especially since koreans are already lower half of the pool outside of TGs (even in arena)


… You can use the dataset from the Conquerors if you want with Koreans 12 range SO

Really? There’s an option in-game to switch over to old dataset? If so, cool! I didn’t know

Yay you successfully turned them into a generic CA. Bravo.
Flatting down any power spike, who needs strategy in AOE anyway?

Next on our show: Kipchaks get Bracer and Jannisaries lose 1 range in Castle Age.

Same uninspired suggestions every week pretty much.
Instead of wisely implementing unique and diverse power-spikes, you guys (including the developers) sand them down, avoiding any elegant form of balance, and rather turn civs into a generic Xbows civs. (or a generic Knight civ, like they did with Sicilians)


To be fair, this was likely the pro players(and their addiction to xboew/knight meta) that advise the Devs. And maybe even the Burmese change.

I can’t imagine anyone on this forum saying sicilian cavaliers should be more tanky to arrows?


the free armor upgrades are the problem. they are totaly fine for archeryrange units but can feel unfair for war wagons. war wagons always have a minimum of 5 pierce armor now, which is kinda stupid


This is a really bad idea. War Wagons are not that dangerous until you get a mass of them going and they will always exchange really badly with skirms and halbs from a gold and wood perspective since they are so expensive. You also need a castle to produce them so you will always be at a disadvantage when it comes to your number of production buildings. They are also extremely difficult to micro, meaning they bump into each other and block each other due to their awkward size. They also lose to massed camels or paladin because they are too awkward and slow to do hit and run micro the way typical cav archer style units can, allowing camels and paladin to get a good surround on them. They already nerfed Korean onagers range. So that’s elite skirms, halbs, camels, paladin and monks which all counter them.

My guess is you keep losing to War Wagons and you think it’s a balance issue but it’s actually just a case of you not preparing counter units and allowing the opponent to build multiple castles so they can mass them up.


That’s a really awkward one to fix though. Unless they introduce a UT that gives WW armour, the alternative is to remove the free armour or nerf the WW pierce armour itself and nerf Koreans even harder in every other game mode. Where they already aren’t doing too well.

So would need to compensate them for it.

From what we’ve seen so far, Devs usually seem to just nerf the offender and reduce viability of civs in all game modes, which is sad (Burmese or elephants in general for example)

That was not the meaning of his words.
He stated merely that with Hauberk, now Sicilians just play knights, forgetting all the Serjeant/Donjon mechanic which supposedly was their main “civ flair”.

Also, War Wagon seems mostly fine to me, dies to knights and monks, which don’t need 650 stone to create. I’d tone down the bonus against buildings of the non elite version maybe, so that they wouldn’t destroy so easily TCs.


Such idea just make war wagon unusable, they are OP just in Castle age and that’s it, remove the extra attack bs buildings and reducing the base attack from 9 to 7 for non elite (which is the same as Camel archer) is just enough.

War Wagon has low RoF of 2.5. Even if it has higher attack than camel archer, overall damage output is similar (with higher cost), why it need to be nerfed?
Castle age WW need reduction of building bonus damage and they are fine. WW is probably one of the weakest unit vs monks outside of elephant, and monk is very common unit in castle age Arena.


Yes let’s make the unit completely useless. We really only need 2 units, crossbows and knights. Everything else should be nerfed to oblivion. :roll_eyes:


One thing is making the UU useless, other is having the UU too opressive, why not just bring back pre nerf konnik then?


Not agree at all. You just want to make Koreans useless

I will say take away 20 HP from WW/EWW and give Koreans Bloodlines.

1 Like

I also used to sometimes have the urge to post about nerfing a unit after playing a bad game, so I kinda understand the sentiment…

1 Like