War Wagons

I wouldn’t mind it. You can even bring the original Arambai back too if you want, that’s fine with me! xD

The more we nerf the civs, the less civs people use. Koreans is already pretty rare, i don’t remember the last time i played vs Koreans, or Burmese for that matter. I do however pick Koreans quite a bit and have a lot of fun going for WW, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. More often than not it does not work, because the enemy goes full knights/cav/paladin and that’s enough to kill all WW very easily. Also monks convert them so easily.

Anyway no point going all salty and making threads about nerfing units because we don’t happen to like them. → this is directed to OP.

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I agree with you.

Pro players want the game to be as simplistic as possible in order to fully govern it. They want to be fully aware of the possibilities, it’s easy this way, they dont like players like Hoang who go non-meta. (used to)
They prefer a perfect symmetry where it’s a mirror match of strategies (drush into archers), it’s too robotic and uninspired but developers served them well, the meta is the most single dimensional it has ever been in the last 5 years.
Same reason why Arabia has less variables, and became basically an empty deseret.

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That’s fine for civs that are just broken and overpicked, I would prefer to see Mayans/Franks/Britons picked way less than now.

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Yeah but it’s not the case with Koreans :slight_smile: And me too for sure!

I think the unit is fine if they reduce the dmg vs buildings, like they did with arambai. They would at least need to add siege to kill sb this way., which is better than the current situation.

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Just give mangonel line bonus dmg against war wagons(maybe +20/25), just like hussite wagons but a little bit less. Relying on Monk rng to counter them is bs. Would still be viable and strong unit, but having few more options against them.

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Tbh arambai are completely useless after the change. Basically they nerfed a unit that never was op because a lot of people got overwhelmed by some cheese strats they simply didn’t know how to defend against.

That’s why I honestly prefer war wagons should just stay as they are. I mean it’s probably a bit easier to nerf them without making them useless as the bonus dmg vs buildings can just be reduced. But the other stats just shouldn’t be touched.

War wagons are extremely strong in very niche scenarios (basically only arena tgs) but in all other scenarios they are fine (certainly not op in 1v1 arena in fact easily countered here and rarely used in tgs on more open maps).

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Obviously you don’t just use monks to counter, you need military as well. But yes, numbering your monks into control groups will help you get more conversions.

I can’t believe that there are still people surprised by the fc war wagon play.

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Bro WW is not a Hussite Wagon. It has cavalry and archer armor class and already get a bonus damage from plenty of units (Camels, pike/halb etc. )
Also most conversion happen before 7-8s and it is not long for countering high cost unit like WW. Monks cannot counter anything except elephant if it is not effective against WW…

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Everyone saying that but i think nobody tested the unit out at all.

Yes, 1 arambai may be useless but i guarantee you a ball of arambai is one of the strongest units in the game. You kill easily cav and you can take out archers as well. There are only a few UU which counter them

I think a unit which can take out buildings like nothing is dumb. The dev’s also see that to some degree, which is why they nerfed mayan archers and saracenes archers as well.

Well Elephant Archers can take out builidngs quite fast when massed. Even in Castle age Organ Guns can do it too.

Organ gun counts as siege tho. I don’t complain about mangonels or rams taking out tcs as well…and you can counter organ guns easier than warwagons in my opinion. It’s also a huge difference if you can take out buildings but have to keep your distance or you just drink coffee under tc fire.

I don’t know about elephant archers…but i play arena quite often and barely see them so it’s way too expensive/you miss your timing.

It’s not like WW spam isn’t counterable…but it’s really annoying to play against. In imp it’s pretty easy to counter them but in castle age where u don’t have the numbers, it’s pretty tough.

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Thing is, arambai used to be good in small numbers. Now they aren’t anymore. So the early dmg potential is gone. And until you get high numbers of this costly unit your opponent has plenty of time to prepare counters. Also the rof was nerfed. So I don’t see a scenario where arambai is good tbh. Atm the unit is way to expensive for what it gives.

Well nobody picks indians on arena so you obviously don’t see the unit a lot. And yes they are bad for a castle age push. But in late game it’s a really powerful unit and vs archer civs can easily give you win. Super expensive though and thus even on arena oftentimes you can’t get there.

War wagons on the other hand are better in castle age which is why you see the low eco pushes a lot with them. And they super easily countered by monks. Double monastery and war wagons do nothing. Annoying I’d say this is only if your civ does not have redemption because then you can’t mangos they might make to kill your monks. But as a good monk civ you really shouldn’t fear war wagon play.

WW are fine, they are expensive so obviously they are pop efficient. Persian elephants are pretty much the same thing and they do good against halbs which are their counter. It’s just a matter of numbers and that’s how expensive units hard to mass should work.

Instead, you should work on your strategies and don’t ask for nerfs when u don’t know how to play against them.

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Is mangudai trash because u need numbers? u don’t need 30 arambai to make them work. The unit is still fine, it’s just the civ that’s trash. I even think the rework wasn’t even bad. Yes, they needed more effort to micro down knights but they traded a lot better vs archers than before. The thing which really hurt them was taking away the imperial UT.

Yeah but that is already the difference. You don’t have many options to counter warwagons in castle age. Imperial is always a different matter. I consider Warwagons in imperial pretty weak because you canj ust spam helbs like candy, which is in castle age pretty impossible.

Yes, monks might work sometimes but you need decent micro for it and you are praying on rng.

you know, i’m all for nerfing something broken, but comments like this…

are just mind boggling.

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I guess you never faced a properly executed double castle war wagon so for you is easy to say the UU is fine XD.

what is that supposed to show me? black forest is another thing and do you really fear warwagons on blackforest the most? because i don’t.

No but mangudai just get better while arambai are pretty useless once your opponent has units with bracer. Arambai is only good in castle age and now that they are bad in low numbers the time window to make dmg with them is super narrow.

Monk work all the time if you play on closed maps. You don’t need to really on rgn as your monks should always scare away the wagons. If koreans go for the infamous double castle strat you should have 5 monks, all the relics and 3 tcs running by the time they start producing wagons. It’s really not that difficult to play monks here. And on open maps UU aren’t great for others reason.