I didnt get to play the pup because of being on gamepass, but i gotta say, the water rework is a 10 out of 10. I had an insane amount of fun playing with my friend today and testing the naval rework, you guys did a great job on it.
Water maps are a lot more difficult to play too, not in a bad way though, specially if you are playing in both land and water as it defo pushes a regular player apm to the limits.
Anyways, great job with the update!
Agreed. It is so much better than before.
to bad people are still dodging watermaps, even in ranked -_-
I just want to play on a watermap for once, or at least a map with descent amount fo water.
I personally hate the changes of Boulderbay as its no longer a “watermap” per se, in teamgames. The water-puddle dosn’t scale with map size well. in a 4v4 map, its about the same size water as in 2v2, meaning hardly any water.
So the 1 water map that I could get a few games on, is no longer there.
yeah, I agree.
We can now get archipelago and warring islands on quick match though which is nice, looks like they reworked the maps although I haven’t seen what they look like yet.
I think people will continue to dodge maps because most don’t know how to play it. You kinda have to play differently, especially on your opening. Also, these hybrid maps, although they are great, they are quite difficult to play as it requires a lot of apm, specially at the later stages of the game when you are fighting in both land and water.
Yeah making universal ships to all civs with very minor differences is awesome. Sarcasm. I find water less enjoyable and less I want to play it because of it. No micro anymore and everyone with exactly same ships dull and boring just like they have done with land stuff on civs now
I agree with the essence of this.
The fact there is little variation now is dissapointing.
But it is without denial far more balanced, and playable to some extent.
And they said this is just the base for Waterbalance and more is to come.
We just have to wait and see what there is to come, if there is anything at all.
Ill believe those words once they’re proven to be worth of believing till they show us the next step there is no point of speculating if this was good choice or not.
Past year excluding malians and ottomans they have steadily removed unique aspects of civs and made everyone more reliant on universal units and now it was waters time to get same treatment so essentially moving towards same as AOE2. 032492309940939405 civs but every civ is same with handful of small differences.
Huh? What do you mean no micro anymore? Because they took away the silly spin to win?
There is tons of micro on water now. The 3 ships have to be constantly microed against each other, especially when demos are in the mix. Also, they gave springald ships a new activatable ability.
Just watch any of the RBW games going on right now and it is clear that “no micro” is nonsense.
They made ships same to each other for now, but they will make them different again. They just need a starting point so they can base their work off
Which is no different from spears / archers / cavalry mix. Only difference is that if you don’t look at for microsecond you might lose everything and lose the game because of demos.
There is no same level of micro that spin to win was and even before you had already the rock paper scissors scenario. Only difference now is that everyone is with same ships.
For example if you had 3 hulks previously to fully optimize them you would have to micro each individually or get them in sync. Now you dont have that so you just make sure target right target and right click
that’s the cost of marketing it as one of the main features in one of the trailers. No surprised but yeah the changes are fine.
One slight extra feedback i would like to give to the devs, i think hulk needs a bit of an extra bonus against galleys as they don’t seem as effective as they should.
Praise to the devs,the game is getting better and better!
Exactly, that happens when you listen to a pro… The game was desesperately needing more unique game play /units and they did the contrary, they have no clue of what they are doing and they are listening to people that are not devs is a joke game
yup but is better as such if they dont know how to create assymetrical civ like ottomans jannie and lack of ma and malians in siege. It is for the best but I agree it is a joke
Not sure if they took the ideas from pros or whatever. I know that some pros not been happy about the water rework.
Like when I watched the pup when it initially came out one thing that stick with me was that arrow ships can miss. I don’t like this. It would be different if the arrow volley was ability that player had to aim and use then it would become more of decision ####### ### if its just the arrows might miss because of rng chance its poor concept. Similarly as trebs.
For example in last game while this wasn’t a factor of anything else than annoyance, but HRE had relic inside outpost with springald upgrade. Outpost was basically one shot away from getting destroyed with trebs so I suspected that repairs were coming so I moved my army to torch it to make sure it dies and my treb misses. So essentially I made bad trade because of coinflip even tho it wasn’t factor what ever I win the game or not but it was just annoying af.
The change has come from seveal people on this very forum asking for a rock paper scizors dynamic to the water, not just pros. Most of us are enjoying the changes, and now we get to see a much larger variety of civs in water maps and not just french mirrors every single time where all people would do is spam hulks all day and nothing else.
For those of you complaining ships are the same to each other here is a quote from the update notes.
“Each class of ship now shares the same stats, this means that a Baouchuan and Carrack are both equal in cost and power. We intend to add ship variations back in the future as we look to refine Naval balance further, however, our goal with this update is to create a solid foundation that we can continue to build from.”
Also civs are designed to be semi asymetrical, its the way rhey are designed, it makes the game easier to balance, and it opens ground for more new civs without wrecking competitive play by adding a bunch of busted units and mechanics. If ppl don’t like the game nobody is forcing you to play it. If you want fully asymetrical civs aoe3 is there and its still receiving plenty of content.
Ofc game is easier to balance when they’re identical because there is nothing to balance begin with and this creates extremely boring concept. As of now the water is mostly cosmetic changes so it would be no different having 1 civ in game and 8 different skins for each ship.
What comes to french hulks they would’ve been easy to balance during feudal and in castle they would be par with other spin to win ships. Reason why actually hated water was either u went for french or skip water, but certainly don’t find it interesting concept where all civs are same.
Same is with land. Excluding malians and ottomans there vanilla 8 civs got closer and closer to each other in terms of similarity and how they played through thanks all the changes past year. Is this good for balance? Sure, but it sure hell is boring af to play with.
The civs are far from being identical to each other.
You are saying Mongols are identical to French and English, or Chinese plays exactly the same way as HRE according to your logic.
Each civ plays far differently to each other. they just share a certain amount of units which is a mechanic that was chosen from the very start by the devs, and still each civ has a different army composition, and feels unique in their own way.
As for the water rework as I stated before, devs made ships equal in stats and cost to each other as a baseline for future changes to come where they will make ships unique again. They just need to make sure their core system works before implementing any additional changes.
I said closer and closer to each other.
Yes mongols are quite different in terms of base building, but guess what? They use same universal units. Every civ essentially spams spears, xbows, horsemen, knights, MAA and all those units are basically clone of each others with small variations depending on civ but not that many civs got huge difference in terms of universal units
Every civ almost without exception goes to 2TC into universal units. In terms of base building there is variations, but yet almost all civs play out very similarly.
Lets look at english / french for example. They got insanely good feudal thanks to their landmarks and units. Yet they still try their hardest to prioritize getting 2nd TC or even 3rd up, because the aggression early on is too easy to defend and why is this? Because the nerfs to aggression and buffs to defensive play which players asked “we dont want to get rushed pls nerf aggression”. Now we’re heading towards different path because now the defensive play gets nerffed to ground and then again aggression and so on. All of this comes down to too many nerfs on outposts, siege while defensive options were left untouched.
In early stages when game was released there were much greater variation of things that happened now not so much.